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Old 12-08-2006, 04:43 PM
 
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Default There is no hope...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp0HyxQv97Q

Guy would have been better off if verizon had transferred him to a call center in india, they probably would have understood simple math.
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Old 12-08-2006, 05:48 PM
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Jeez! Does anyone else find this a little bit disturbing?
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:11 PM
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After 22 minutes of listening to that I am astonished !!!!! Talk about hard headed and no math skills or common sense !!!
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:21 PM
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The company says .00002, but they really mean .002. THey think we are all idiots, and they are almost, virtually correct :roll:
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:41 PM
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Obviously not a math entry skills test required at Verizon... this is the kinda sh*t that makes me hate large corporations.
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:48 PM
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It makes you wonder if they are doing their books the same way and screwing their stock holders!!!
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Old 12-09-2006, 05:56 AM
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I can't believe I actually listened to that for 22 minutes! :roll: Somehow, I just kept hoping for some one with a clue to get on the line at the other end...
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Old 12-09-2006, 11:55 AM
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I only made it through 5 minutes before closing it. I felt my IQ dropping several points just by listening to it :wink:

Not to hijack, but you'd be surprised how "ignorant" the general populace is about basic math and science skills. When I was in college an explanation was thrown out that because we over compartmentalize facts, we forget the most basic ones.... or something like that.

For example, I did a quick little study at my school's open house last year. In a a room full of my student's parents, I asked the question... Is a fly an animal?

About 90% responded with a "NO! its an insect!"

They all learned this back in elementary/middle school, but as they progressed in school, that fact was replaced with more specific facts about insects and members of the arthropod family.

Perhaps the more we learn, the more we forget?
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:00 PM
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You can check out updates on his blog here:

http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/

It gets more comical everyday!
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:12 PM
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Damn, stupidity is the plague of American society. Looking at the link posted above shows that yet another person in the chain can't seem to figure it out. I don't get it, it seems so simple and logical to us when he lays it out but EVERY Verizon person f**ks it up?? What the hell is in the water there?? ARRGGHHH!!! Stupidity frustrates me even when it doesn't effect me.
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Old 12-09-2006, 07:15 PM
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i could only take about 5-6 mins of it... and i find it very disturbing zbrinks :?
boy am i glad i didnt go to public school... not that all kids that go to public school are stupid but they do crank out alot of them
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Old 12-09-2006, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyo90
i could only take about 5-6 mins of it... and i find it very disturbing zbrinks :?
boy am i glad i didnt go to public school... not that all kids that go to public school are stupid but they do crank out alot of them

Careful there, man. Public school teacher on board here. 8)

From my viewpoint, its not public ed that is screwed up, its the lack of parenting that goes on. We can only do so much with them if their own parents don't value education. Parents that send their kids to private school are already putting a vested interest in education, so of course private schools are going to look good. But beware.... I have seen some kids come from private schools where I have to wonder if they really did anything other than read from the bible all day. Zero math skills, zero reading comprehension. Most private schools don't require a teacher to have a teaching certificate, and they can do it because they are private. I could fill a thread just with all the weird, crazy, assinine stuff I've seen over the last ten years of teaching.


o.k. rant over.... it gets frustrating....
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:06 AM
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That man has the patience of a saint... he's very very very calm with the Verizon employee.

I know there is no way I could have handled that. I don't even understand how somebody cannot comprehend the math here.




Mind boggling, really.
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:27 AM
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I was actually getting upset and frustrated until I realized that I wasn't the one surrounded by idiots. I was just WAITING for someone to be put on the phone with a 4th grade education, but nothing.

As for the state of the school systems, I think it's just going to get worse, with all the "no child left behind" type deals. The kids get tested so much, and the schools are funded so poorly that the quality of education has just drastically dropped. =(
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Old 12-10-2006, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rompida
Careful there, man. Public school teacher on board here. 8)
i did not mean to offend
i also agree alot of the problem is with the parents not emphasizing how important education is which in turn the kids have no ambition to do get good grades and excell in school and in turn they turn into a couch potato for the rest of their lives...
the reason im glad i didnt got to public shcool is the schools arent very good in my area
when i was in public school the teacher was more interested in teaching us how to recycle save the rainforest and what not than math or reading
again im sorry if i offened you
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTwentySix
As for the state of the school systems, I think it's just going to get worse, with all the "no child left behind" type deals. The kids get tested so much, and the schools are funded so poorly that the quality of education has just drastically dropped. =(
They get tested and are not taught to learn it.

I was going to say the same thing. I had some amazing teachers (and of course the couple/few I could've done w/ out, but being insubordinate they didn't like me either, so it fanned out nicely) when they were still getting the needed pay. Nowadays it has definately dropped as I found out through a cousin of mine. Incredably sad, not even worth it anymore, more of a risk than anything. The teachers don't care, the paid paid just to be there so they do what they have to, to get by.

Also sad for those working to become a teacher as it doesn't promote the ambition to work for the kids as it once did. Getting/having paid for their degree they have no choice than to stick w/ what first strived for.

It must be going down hill in Europe as well?
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:18 AM
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It appears that verizon has finally resolved this with George but it had to go all the way to the "Executive Relations Team" before someone could do the math.

The Executive Relations Team? Are you kidding me? No one lower than this could do the math and resolve the problem?

Maybe we should give the person on their end of the phone a math quiz before we do business with them.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:29 AM
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What was the final resilution, did he have to pay the .71 cents ??
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsatc
It appears that verizon has finally resolved this with George but it had to go all the way to the "Executive Relations Team" before someone could do the math.

The Executive Relations Team? Are you kidding me? No one lower than this could do the math and resolve the problem?

Maybe we should give the person on their end of the phone a math quiz before we do business with them.
I wonder how high a customer can go?
Executive Relations Team sounds pretty high up there. But I myself never though there was any doubt that it would have to be someone really high up there before this guy got whats fair.
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:46 AM
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I would definately agree that it is amazing that these people could not understand what this guy was getting at. However, I think that it is ridiculous to pursue something like this when it is very obvious that they were actually dealing in dollar units rather than cents. If it had been me I would only have tried to help them understand the termanology error rather than refusing to pay the bill when in actuality I am sure that he knew what the cost was that they intended on charging him in the first place.

Is he within his legal rights to only pay the cent value due to his contract? Yes, absolutely. However, for me personally, I find it unethical to try to stick it to a company over a very obvious error. Sure, you can argue that they stick it to us all the time and they deserve it, but like my mom always said "two wrongs don't make a right".

Here's why I think it's unethical. If I went to the store and the cashier gave me $20 for change when he/she only owed me $10 I would be within my rights to keep the cash because it was freely given to me, but it would be completely unethical because I know that it was a mistake and that the cashier only intended on giving me $10 but gave me $20 by mistake. the right thing to do would be to go back and rectify the situation and return the extra $10.

As a cashier I know that I have done this and was happy to have the money returned. I also can't tell you how many times a little old lady gave me two $100 bills (no exageration) that were stuck together when she only meant to give me one of them. Trust me it happens all the time, and I mean every day to a lesser or greater degree. If I were dishonest I could probably take home 10-20 bucks on average every day, but I always return the extra bill.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I find it much more disturbing that America is losing it's morals and ethics rather than it's math skills.
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Old 12-14-2006, 04:19 PM
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I've got to disagree with you there, on the morals issue. As he stated, he had no reason to believe that he would be charged $72. The price of $2.05/MB ($.002/KB) is insane. That would be roughly $2,000 per gigabyte at the price they were charging him (which granted is a bit extreme for a phone; originally I'd thought they were talking about Internet service rates).

If you were new to the hobby, and someone offered to sell you a pair of histrionicus for $100, and you then got a bill for $10,000, would you still pay that? Granted, $10,000 is a bit extreme to expect someone pay, but it's a pretty close parallel to his situation.
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTwentySix
I've got to disagree with you there, on the morals issue. As he stated, he had no reason to believe that he would be charged $72. The price of $2.05/MB ($.002/KB) is insane. That would be roughly $2,000 per gigabyte at the price they were charging him (which granted is a bit extreme for a phone; originally I'd thought they were talking about Internet service rates).
Sounds about right to me as cell charges go. It would be no surprise at all. I mean come on, is anybody really crazy enough to think that a cell company is only going to charge cents. even in his blog he admits that he was shocked by how cheep it was. with that said, I'm not intending on painting the guy out as the scum of the earth. I just simply think that the whole thing is riddiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTwentySix
If you were new to the hobby, and someone offered to sell you a pair of histrionicus for $100, and you then got a bill for $10,000, would you still pay that? Granted, $10,000 is a bit extreme to expect someone pay, but it's a pretty close parallel to his situation.
Your missing the point. It would be obscene to force the guy to sell those frogs for that cheep over an error in the actual cost. And to answer your question, no I would not force him to take a 100 bucks for it. I would simply accept the fact that it was a mistake and not buy the frogs, end of story. I understand that there are people out there that would have no problem ripping the guy off like that but to me it is disgusting. I live my life by the "do unto others rule" and treat people the way that I would want to be treated in hopes that others will do the same to me. Do people always treat me with the same respect as I would them? No, but at least I know i did the right thing.
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul E. Wog
I guess what I'm getting at is that I find it much more disturbing that America is losing it's morals and ethics rather than it's math skills.
Morals and ethics are subjective. Math skills, not so much.
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Old 12-15-2006, 01:13 AM
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bwood, if I am understanding you correctly you are saying that morals and ethics are different for every person and that what is moral and ethical for one may not be for another. If that is what you believe I would have to say that I respectfully dissagree as I believe that morals and ethics are absolute and universal. I'm not trying to make people mad or start an argument, I am simply sharing what I believe to be true.
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Old 12-15-2006, 01:32 AM
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these companies have no feelings or sympathy for anyone, why should anyone have any for them??
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Old 12-15-2006, 03:45 AM
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@ Mrnicolai:
Because we are better people than they are. I hope/wish.

I personally set myself at a higher standard than I expect to recieve from other people, and trust me people notice it. I get complimented all the time as to how respectful, polite and positive I am. I don't expect to be treated the with the same respect by everyone, but I do hope that my example may help others to try to be better people too. I'm not trying to toot my own horn or sound as though I think that I am a better person than anyone else, I am just saying that kindness can change people. I can tell you that after 8 years as a cashier if you treat nasty, miserable people with kindness they will notice. They may change their negative, hateful attitude and they may not, but they still notice that your different than they are. The point is that they see somone that acts different than they do and may realize that they don't have to be the big jerks that they are. I can think of at least 8 regular customers right now that used to treat me very badly but have since changed the way that they treat me when they come into my store. I believe that they see that I will always return their bitter comments with kindness and respect which in turn causes them to notice how poor their own attitude is. Whether or not that will completely change them or not is their decision, but at least in some way I feel that they see that their is a different way to live than the way that they do.

The problem is that you are trying to treat a company as if it is capable of sympathy. Keep in mind the company is run by people. And if we can set a higher standard and encourage others to be ethical it will inevitably show through their company. Can we change the world? No, and it would be naive to think so. But if we all try to act better than we will see a change in they way our society opperates. If you try to use the poor way that you are treated by others as a copout for why you treat them the same way, then you are only adding fuel to the fire.
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Old 12-15-2006, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul E. Wog
I respectfully dissagree as I believe that morals and ethics are absolute and universal.
I respectfully disagree with your belief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul E. Wog
I'm not trying to make people mad or start an argument, I am simply sharing what I believe to be true.
Personally, I think that it is immoral for someone to push their morality and beliefs on me.
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Old 12-15-2006, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwood1979
Personally, I think that it is immoral for someone to push their morality and beliefs on me.
I'm not "pushing" my beliefs on you, I am just simply sharing my opinion just as you are. I could easily say that you are pushing your "morality and beliefs" on me as well but I realize that you are simply sharing your opinion/beliefs with which you and everyone else have every right to do.
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:43 AM
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Point one: he did say that he had an unlimited plan in the states, so he didn't know what a fair price would be. If he knew it cost $1/mb in the states, then it would be reasonable for him to expect to pay a bit more in Canada. But he said he had an unlimited plan in the states, so he may just not know.

I have no idea what data charges are on phones with internet. when I shopped for my phone I pretty much just looked for unlimited data plans.


Point two:

and as for morals being relative, you get into problems when you meet people who think that a particular race of people doesn't deserve to exist. because according to a relativist, if they committed genocide against that race they would have actually been doing a good thing. and it pretty much gets rid of morals and ethics all together along with allowing for rather heinous things happening without being able to justify punishment.

Not saying I have a correct theory, but I defiantly think there are theories that are 'less wrong' than ethical relativism.
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