I.D. Auratus and Varadera - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Miscellaneous > Identification Forum
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise

Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

Like Tree4Likes
  • 2 Post By mongo77
  • 1 Post By CAPTAIN RON
  • 1 Post By TheCoop

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2016, 11:51 PM
FYr FYr is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: North Eastern US
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default I.D. Auratus and Varadera

I am rather new to the world of dart frogs and as such I have only recently acquired my new frogs. I have the hardest time identifying the different black and green Auratus and because of this difficulty I believe that I have made a mistake. Clearly, I have two very different shades of green. Now, these two frogs are still quite young and at different stages of development. Is there anyway to reach a consensus as to if they are both Panamanian, Hawaiian, other?


My second IDK moment. At the same time I purchased the more blue of the Auratus, I also got three Varadero. The first part of this IDK moment comes with the question of line breeding. These are all related frogs, something tells me that this is a no-no and that I should start separating now to avoid disaster later. The second part of this particular IDK moment is sexing. One of these little buggers is calling, I have absolutely no idea which.

Meet #1 who I am considering to be a female


#2 who I think may be a male?


#3 I haven't a clue


Thank you for all advice!
Emily
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2016, 12:04 AM
Encyclia's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,038
Thanks: 129
Thanked 228 Times in 214 Posts
Default Re: I.D. Auratus and Varadera

Hi Emily,
Welcome to the board. Any chance those are green and bronze auratus? If so, it is common for there to be a lot of color variation in the offspring. This may be true of other auratus, too, but I am not as familiar with them.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2016, 01:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 802
Thanks: 9
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Default Re: I.D. Auratus and Varadera

Where did you purchase the frogs? That may help. Best guess would be green and black Costa Rican and some form of blue and black
Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2016, 01:45 AM
FYr FYr is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: North Eastern US
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: I.D. Auratus and Varadera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encyclia View Post
Hi Emily,
Welcome to the board. Any chance those are green and bronze auratus? If so, it is common for there to be a lot of color variation in the offspring. This may be true of other auratus, too, but I am not as familiar with them.

Mark
Both Auratus were sold to me as black and green, not bronze. I understand there being color differences and variability, in person they match a bit more then the photo but it is still enough of a difference to concern me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricolor View Post
Where did you purchase the frogs? That may help. Best guess would be green and black Costa Rican and some form of blue and black
The one Auratus that is a very obvious green color is a Panamanian green and black froglet from Frogs N Things that I bought previous to the Hamburg Show on April 30th, 2016. The other, more blue, frog is from Captain Ron's Tropical Visions and was bought at the Hamburg Show and is marked as an ABG green and black. I was always under the impression that ABG meant American Botanical Garden so I do not know exactly what line this frog is from.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2016, 02:22 AM
FYr FYr is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: North Eastern US
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I am not sure if this will help, but this is the more blue frog only with different lighting.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2016, 02:41 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: California
Posts: 582
Thanks: 23
Thanked 57 Times in 52 Posts
Default Re: I.D. Auratus and Varadera

My green and blacks vary in hue considerably even within the same clutch and they vary as they age. If they were both sold as g/b then I'd go with that (the "blueish" one doesn't look that blue to me). The one sold as a Panamanian g/b I'd assume was right also. The other one, I don't know what ABG means outside of substrate. I'm sure if you PM Ron here on the board he can probably tell you. Neither look like Hawaiians to me (but I'm not an expert!).

As to the line breeding question...there are ups and downs. Lots of ups and downs. But ultimately I think you might ask yourself what you're plans on for the offspring if they have any. If you're only going to be producing a few and sporadically, it may not make much difference (although to be fair others may/are likely to disagree).

Mike
__________________
Oophaga lehmanni(red), pumilio(Cristobal/Nicaragua blue jeans); Ranitomeya benedicta(shucushuyacu);
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2016, 02:41 AM
Gibbs.JP's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: North San Diego, CA
Posts: 764
Thanks: 31
Thanked 60 Times in 53 Posts
Default Re: I.D. Auratus and Varadera

Take my opinion as just that - opinion. But, it looks like the top varadero pic is female, middle is male, and bottom is female. Solely looking at the body shape, the top and bottom look a little more "pear" shaped while the middle is a little slimmer. Also, the middle one's toe pads look a little larger.

As far as breeding, there are many, many posts on here about the subject, but I believe the consensus is that it's generally just fine to breed siblings/same line groups. I think the thought is that very far down the generational line there can be some issues, but for the most part there isn't a lot of current evidence showing that. I think the idea is that in the wild there is nothing stopping them from breeding with each other even if they are from the same line.
__________________
- Josh
Tinctorius, Leucomelas, Fantasticas, Imitators, Terribilis, Variabilis, Pumilio, Sirensis
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2016, 04:56 AM
mongo77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 1,017
Thanks: 28
Thanked 58 Times in 57 Posts
Default Re: I.D. Auratus and Varadera

Yea and it works in Game of Thrones!
Fingolfin and Gibbs.JP like this.
__________________
Thanks, LARRY

" Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!" Ben Franklin
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2016, 04:36 PM
CAPTAIN RON's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MARYLAND
Posts: 433
Thanks: 49
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
Default Re: I.D. Auratus and Varadera

FYr,the auratus that you purchased from me is Costa Rican Green and Black (old ABG line) so its ok to keep with Green and Black auratus from Costa Rico. The green on the frogs sometimes comes out a bit Bluish/Green on a few froglets! I would not breed them with Panamanian if trying to breed them! Ok to keep together though!
Ron
tardis101 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2016, 05:15 PM
TheCoop's Avatar
TWI/ASN
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Covington, Wa
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 14
Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts
Default Re: I.D. Auratus and Varadera

When lineage is stated as "ABG"-"ATLANTA BOTANICAL GARDENS" only keep with other frogs of the same lineage. The same goes with any other animal. Auratus even though Green and Black can show a bit of variable coloration.
Dane likes this.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheCoop For This Useful Post:
CAPTAIN RON (05-03-2016)
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2016, 12:33 PM
FYr FYr is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: North Eastern US
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: I.D. Auratus and Varadera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibbs.JP View Post
Take my opinion as just that - opinion. But, it looks like the top varadero pic is female, middle is male, and bottom is female.
That is exactly what I thought, so I'll just see who decides to commingle

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPTAIN RON View Post
The auratus that you purchased from me is Costa Rican Green and Black (old ABG line) so its ok to keep with Green and Black auratus from Costa Rico.
So this means I get to set up another viv! Thank you everyone for the help. I'm going to look a bit more into line breeding because it makes the little geneticist in me nervous lol.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
auratus, identification, varadero

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.