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Old 11-08-2007, 07:44 PM
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Default Phyllobates vittatus yellow banded?

I bought four Phyllobates vittatus a few weeks ago, all from the same supplier. But now, i realize that one looks a bit different from the others, has slightly wider bands and are more yellowy in colour. Now I'm just frowning upon the idea that I might have two different morphs in the same tank, or worse: a Hybrid! Anyone with experience on vittatus???
Here's a pic of a normal red striped vittatus:
http://bangor.facebook.com/photo.php?pi ... =720701961
and here's the pic of my differently striped vittatus:
http://bangor.facebook.com/photo.php?pi ... =720701961

Cheers,

Nik
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:40 PM
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^ is there any way not to go through the login process? I just want to see the pics and not register?
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:51 PM
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Rob, you might be thinking what I'm thinking, maybe Azureiventris?? They are pretty similar, just different color, yellow to orange striping as opposed to the red.

Brent
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Old 11-08-2007, 09:54 PM
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Yeah, I'm curious what we have here. Love to see some pics
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:59 PM
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Post a direct link to the pic's URL (Right click/properties/URL). Not everyone is in college/facebook.
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:19 PM
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Its a normal P. vittatus. Nothing different, nothing new, not a hybrid. These frogs don't all show the exact same colors and (or) patterns - like people there is individual variablity. People are starting to take this morph/line crap to far.

Best,

Chuck
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Old 11-10-2007, 05:33 PM
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Here are the pics for all you old folks who aren't in college anymore


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Old 11-10-2007, 05:37 PM
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As Chuck said, I see nothing strange here. I see this a lot with aurotaenia's too.
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:39 PM
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Thanks all for your interest. And thanks jency for posting the pics in a more suitable way. Still have to get to grips with the site.
I didn't mean to make a big fuzz about the variability of my frogs. I never thougth it wasn't a phyllobates vittatus, just that I've read somewhere that there are two different morphs (copper banded and yellow banded) of this species. I believe that breeding different morphs together is not a good idea (messing around with the genetic make-up of the species). So I just wanted to know whether it was normal variability within the copper banded morph or a hybrid between the different morphs. Not between different species...
However this is very good news to me, no need to worry about the yellow(er) lined little one.

Cheers,

Nik
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Old 11-13-2007, 04:10 AM
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Nik,

There are no morphs of Phyllobates vittatus. You get a wide variety of colors and band thickness from a single pair of frogs. Someone has come along and called them different morphs. Also supplements can play a big part in the frogs developing different colors. They aren't from different imports or different localities. The whole thing is artificial.

In any case breeding frogs of the same species is not a problem. Its not a hybrid - its still the species it always was. Especially with something like P. vittatus which is without providence. This species has been around since at least the late 1980's and likely earlier. I can see keeping the different morphs of something like D. tinctorius or D. pumilio separate as they are distinct and come from different localities, but with something like P. vittatus it doesn't make any sense.

Best,

Chuck
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:31 PM
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Chuck - I thought once upon a time there were two distinct Vittatus? One mistakenly called lugubris until true lugubris photos were shown and the actual lugubris brought in?

From photos of lugubris from Sierpe, Peninsula Osa, Costa Rica, they seem to have the much wider bands with heavy spotting as well - similar to a wide banded auroteania that doesn't have a full back of yellow. Example 1, Example 2. While I can't say I've seen them in the hobby anytime recently, I believe they were in the EU hobby, and I thought there were some in the US as well, which is why there was confusion over lugubris?

As for the frogs in question - a little color difference doens't mean much in vittutus. Vittatus in particular seem to show an interesting pigmentation habit... the color of the frog seems determined by what the frog was fed as a tadpole. The lighter individual may just have gotten a little less than it's siblings.
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Old 11-22-2007, 06:59 PM
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Corey-

Those animals (pseudo-lugubris) were picked out from the existing captive breed P. vittatus here in the States. My understanding is they weren't from a distinct importation or anything like that. Someone came along and said ... oh, hey, these are different from your vittatus, I guess there something different. I think they might be P. lugubris. I'm not sure whether it was intentional or not, but it was a big selling point at the time. The thing is a group of P. vittatus can produce offspring with thick or thin stripes and of variable color.

The two examples you list are of P. vittatus, not P. lugubris. Phyllobates lugubirs is a smaller and a different looking frog. This is P. lugubris http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/im...0000+1005+0595.

I've noticed, especially recently but in the past also, that if a frog doesn't look like its parents then something must be wrong - there seems to be less and less acceptance of intraspecies variability, even from the same importation or locality. I'm not a big fan of this fine dividing of morphs as it doesn't reflect wild populations but our idea of what wild populations are like.

Best,

Chuck
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Old 11-22-2007, 11:53 PM
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Erp, I meant vittatus. I really wasn't into phyllobates at the time that the vittatus debate was going on - wasn't even in the hobby when the seperation occured - so I definately missed the seperation bit. Does make sense on why even the most broadly banded animals still weren't totally like the Osa vittatus, but I thought it was just the individuals I saw.

I've definately noticed the trend you've talked about... the variations have even gotten to the point where some people think different varieties of a morph are different morphs... it's definately frustrating.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:28 PM
 
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Looks like a P.Vittatus to me. Vittatus can greaty variate in color and pattern.

-Yidso
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