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Old 09-07-2011, 01:24 AM
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Default azureus having trouble eating

Has anyone ever had a frog that just seemed like it's tongue wasn't sticky or long enough to catch the fruit flies??
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: azureus having trouble eating

I recently was going through that with one of my 6yr. old male leucs.
He was doing fine for years,then all of sudden he started dropping weight and was probably missing 8 out of 10 fies he was going for.
I was just about to seperate him when he started putting weight back on, he now looks much better but still misses the occasional fly.

John
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: azureus having trouble eating

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnorwood0811 View Post
Has anyone ever had a frog that just seemed like it's tongue wasn't sticky or long enough to catch the fruit flies??
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...tml#post634631
http://www.azeah.com/Care-Sheets.asp?id=178

From what I've read, that sounds like it could be a case of vitamin A deficiency. What is your supplement schedule like?
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Last edited by Coppertop; 09-07-2011 at 03:00 AM.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:01 AM
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yeah this guy is a little over a year, its like his tongue is to short or something. He doesn't seem to be losing any weight and he is pretty active so I guess he is doing ok. I hope!
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:03 AM
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I dose calcium everyday and multi vitamins 2 times a week.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: azureus having trouble eating

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Originally Posted by tnorwood0811 View Post
I dose calcium everyday and multi vitamins 2 times a week.
what kind of multivitamin do you use, and how old is it? From what I understand, some of the older multivitamins, such as herptivite, exclude preformed vitamin A, due to a toxicity scare in reptile communities years back. However, much research (by some of the members on this forum), suggests preformed vitamin A is quite beneficial in amphibians, for a number of reasons listed in the links above.

I also ask how old the supplement itself is, because when exposed to air, it will begin to degrade and cease being useful. The recommendation is to stop using most multivitamins after about 6 months, even less if they are kept in hot, humid environments.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:19 AM
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It is Herptivite, and its brand new. I will definitely look into vitamin A supplements and see if that will work.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: azureus having trouble eating

In addition to the threads mentioned on Vitamin A, I find it easiest to google: Vitamin A deficiency dendroboard - from this you should get some more threads with good info.

Sally
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: azureus having trouble eating

Really sounds like "short tongue syndrome" to me. It is caused my deficiencies in vitamin A and calcium. A lot of the members, including myself, swear by the Repashy vitamin supplements, which are better formulated for absorption and metabolization for herps than herptivite/herptical.

Here is some more info on short tongue syndrome:
Do Your Frogs or Toads Have Trouble Catching Insects? | That Reptile Blog
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...-syndrome.html

And the Repashy supplement manufacturer's website:
Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

Short tongue syndrome can be a serious problem if not addressed quickly
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Old 09-07-2011, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: azureus having trouble eating

If you search the phrase short tongue syndrome on this forum, you'll find at least 40 threads discussing it.

With respect to the supplements, herptivite supplies only beta carotene as the source of vitamin A for the frogs. Across a number of different frog taxa including dendrobatids, it appears that they have issues converting sufficient beta carotene to the active vitamin A (retinol, retinyl, etc). There aren't a lot of supplements that have a non-beta carotene source of vitamin A, and one of the newer ones are the Repashy products (and Dendrocare and Herpetal).
Insufficient vitamin A in the diet, results in a loss of the mucous that allows the tongue to be sticky, which results in the appearence that the tongue is too short. It also affects other systems including but not limited to the immune system and reproductive success. Even the multisupplements that contain vitamin A as retinyl acetate or retinyl palmitate do not appear sufficient to resolve severe cases of hypovitaminosis of A, in those cases an additional source of vitamin A is used to bring the frog back up to sufficient reserves. The Repashy product line has a dusting supplement which should resolve the issue, before that product made it's debut, some of us were grinding human grade dry vitamin A supplements and dusting the feeder insects.

Insufficient calcium was mentioned above but that is not a result of insufficient vitamin A, it is the result of deformation of the bones controlling the tongue and is actually the result of what is commonly called in the hobby "MBD".

Some comments,

Ed
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed View Post
If you search the phrase short tongue syndrome on this forum, you'll find at least 40 threads discussing it.

With respect to the supplements, herptivite supplies only beta carotene as the source of vitamin A for the frogs. Across a number of different frog taxa including dendrobatids, it appears that they have issues converting sufficient beta carotene to the active vitamin A (retinol, retinyl, etc). There aren't a lot of supplements that have a non-beta carotene source of vitamin A, and one of the newer ones are the Repashy products (and Dendrocare and Herpetal).
Insufficient vitamin A in the diet, results in a loss of the mucous that allows the tongue to be sticky, which results in the appearence that the tongue is too short. It also affects other systems including but not limited to the immune system and reproductive success. Even the multisupplements that contain vitamin A as retinyl acetate or retinyl palmitate do not appear sufficient to resolve severe cases of hypovitaminosis of A, in those cases an additional source of vitamin A is used to bring the frog back up to sufficient reserves. The Repashy product line has a dusting supplement which should resolve the issue, before that product made it's debut, some of us were grinding human grade dry vitamin A supplements and dusting the feeder insects.

Insufficient calcium was mentioned above but that is not a result of insufficient vitamin A, it is the result of deformation of the bones controlling the tongue and is actually the result of what is commonly called in the hobby "MBD".

Some comments,

Ed
That sounds like that is exactly whats wrong! Here is another question, how can I get him to ingest enough vitamin A to correct the problem now that he can't really catch anything?
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Old 09-07-2011, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: azureus having trouble eating

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Originally Posted by tnorwood0811 View Post
That sounds like that is exactly whats wrong! Here is another question, how can I get him to ingest enough vitamin A to correct the problem now that he can't really catch anything?
It depends on what you are comfortable with and whether or not you have access to a vet to help you... If you have a vet, you can tube the frog (adult tinctorius are easily large enough to tube) with a food supplement that will allow the frog to reverse the condition (liquid feline diets are often used). If the frog is able to catch any flies, you can dust with the Repashy vitamin A product once a week (which may be a good idea as other frogs are probably deficient as well) as that will also help resolve the issue. A vet should probably be consulted regardless as a fecal may also be needed to determine if there is something else going on that is changing the need for vitamin A in the frog.

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Old 09-07-2011, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed View Post
It depends on what you are comfortable with and whether or not you have access to a vet to help you... If you have a vet, you can tube the frog (adult tinctorius are easily large enough to tube) with a food supplement that will allow the frog to reverse the condition (liquid feline diets are often used). If the frog is able to catch any flies, you can dust with the Repashy vitamin A product once a week (which may be a good idea as other frogs are probably deficient as well) as that will also help resolve the issue. A vet should probably be consulted regardless as a fecal may also be needed to determine if there is something else going on that is changing the need for vitamin A in the frog.

Ed
Ok so I went out to Petsmart and Petco because there aren't any local pet stores around here. Petsmart didn't have any Repashy products at all. At Petco I found some Repashy calcium plus for leopard geckos and that has 400,000 IU/Kg of vitamin A among other stuff as well. I guess it will be ok for now until I order the stuff online.
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: azureus having trouble eating

here he is in a tubberware container
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Old 09-08-2011, 04:16 AM
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Default Re: azureus having trouble eating

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnorwood0811 View Post
Ok so I went out to Petsmart and Petco because there aren't any local pet stores around here. Petsmart didn't have any Repashy products at all. At Petco I found some Repashy calcium plus for leopard geckos and that has 400,000 IU/Kg of vitamin A among other stuff as well. I guess it will be ok for now until I order the stuff online.
I don't think that it's specially formulated for leopard geckos; I think that's just the picture Allen Repashy chose for the label. I use the same calcium + supplement (smells like bananas to me), and I highly recommend it, as do others on the forum.

You can get the Repashy vitA supplement on his website:
Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL :: Vitamin A Plus - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

Some of the site sponsors might also carry it:
Dendroboard.com - Sponsors
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypostatic View Post
I don't think that it's specially formulated for leopard geckos; I think that's just the picture Allen Repashy chose for the label. I use the same calcium + supplement (smells like bananas to me), and I highly recommend it, as do others on the forum.

You can get the Repashy vitA supplement on his website:
Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL :: Vitamin A Plus - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

Some of the site sponsors might also carry it:
Dendroboard.com - Sponsors

haha Yeah it does smell pretty good, I actually ordered some of the Repashy vit A supplement today, it will be here soon. I hope the problem gets fixed!!!
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