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Old 08-03-2019, 07:23 PM
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Default Unexpected adult male death

If anyone can offer some input on the following I’d greatly appreciate it. I’ve successfully kept everything from tincs to pumillios for years and I consider myself to be an intermediate keeper. However there is always something new to learn and I’m pleading for advice on this one. I’ve dealt with all sorts of successes and failures but there is one issue that pops up on occasion that I cannot figure out. Specifically, my problem is the sudden and unexpected deaths of adult male D. tinctorius.

These are captive bred adult males in exceptional health with good body weight. I’m not talking about underweight stressed individuals kept poorly, nor am I talking about froglets. Vivariums are maintained within accepted optimal conditions so I’m going to omit husbandry specifics and obvious beginner issues. Obviously diet is supplemented appropriately with repashy supercal daily and repashy vitamin A once a month. There is no slow decline or obvious signs of poor health. I walk in to my frog room one morning and I find a dead frog.

I’ve experience two deaths two years apart that I couldn’t explain and here are the details. The first death was a two year old male paired long term with an adult female. They bred successfully for a month and then the make suddenly died. The female is fine. They were kept together in a well planted forty breeder.

The second death was an adult male I acquired a few weeks ago. This make was kept alone in a well planted quarantine aquarium made up solely for him. He fed well, was nice and plump and then one day poof. He was dead. I realize that both are unrelated but if anyone has experienced anything similar I’d love to hear about it. I can chalk up the first death to stress from breeding but the second one completely baffles me.
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Old 08-03-2019, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Unexpected adult male death

Given its the middle of summer, if death is very sudden, one possibility is heat. Do you have an air-conditioned space? Vents on the top of the vivarium?
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Old 08-03-2019, 07:57 PM
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Given its the middle of summer, if death is very sudden, one possibility is heat. Do you have an air-conditioned space? Vents on the top of the vivarium?
. I have my frog room climate controlled. The ambient room temperature is 72 to 76 degrees. All my vivariums have thermometers and I check temps daily with a temp gun. It never goes over or under. Also the ventilation is restricted to allow airflow in but maintain internal temps and humidity. About 80 percent of the top is covered with glass and 10 percent at either side is open for cross ventilation.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: Unexpected adult male death

Post a picture of the tank please, this will give us more insight.
Know that most of the Tinctorius in the hobby are kept on waaaaay to wet substrate and that is 90% of the time the reason they have a short life expectancy.

Tinctorius insitu clip : https://youtu.be/gNlZLBpivMI
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:23 PM
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Post a picture of the tank please, this will give us more insight.
Know that most of the Tinctorius in the hobby are kept on waaaaay to wet substrate and that is 90% of the time the reason they have a short life expectancy.

Tinctorius insitu clip : https://youtu.be/gNlZLBpivMI
I’m having trouble posting pics but this one is the same as the ones I keep my other tincs in. False bottom with lots of leaf litter, microfauna etc. Substrate is never sopping wet.
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Unexpected adult male death

I'll defer to Tijl's opinion, if there is in fact a cause that explains both deaths.

I'd personally be likely to consider them unrelated, otherwise. The new-ish frog dying, well, isn't so unexpected. New animals sometimes -- rarely, of course -- don't make it. The stress of moving (including incidents that happened in transit that aren't documented, like the box being dropped) is not inconsiderable.

The established frog's death could well be 'one of those things'. If you keep enough numbers of animals for long enough, you will get a random death. Happens in all animals, including humans.

I'd be much more worried if there were some pattern of causality (like the one Tijl offered), as in cases where the deaths happen one after another, or each following some action on your part, or with similar symptoms. But idiopathic deaths two years apart don't really sound too concerning.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue View Post
I'll defer to Tijl's opinion, if there is in fact a cause that explains both deaths.

I'd personally be likely to consider them unrelated, otherwise. The new-ish frog dying, well, isn't so unexpected. New animals sometimes -- rarely, of course -- don't make it. The stress of moving (including incidents that happened in transit that aren't documented, like the box being dropped) is not inconsiderable.

The established frog's death could well be 'one of those things'. If you keep enough numbers of animals for long enough, you will get a random death. Happens in all animals, including humans.

I'd be much more worried if there were some pattern of causality (like the one Tijl offered), as in cases where the deaths happen one after another, or each following some action on your part, or with similar symptoms. But idiopathic deaths two years apart don't really sound too concerning.
Thank you both for the input. I do have a large long term collection of over 15 adults of various species and locales and I’m not experiencing frequent or massive die offs. The majority thrive from froglet to adulthood. These are the only two adults I’ve ever lost though and despite all my efforts to ascertain a cause I have yet to find one. Nonetheless, thank you both for the responses.
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