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Old 05-30-2011, 05:27 AM
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Default Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

I am just curious Why does everyone assume that anyone who has Frogs will raise and Sell Offspring...especially if they have a Mixed Species Tank.

Is there a Law which requires every Frogger to Sell Offspring that I am unaware of?
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

For most species proper husbandry inevitably leads to breeding, and a person can only keep so many of the offspring,
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

What Tony said in regards to husbandry leading to inevitable breeding.

In addition, even the seemingly cold-hearted, antagonizing, alienating froggers here on the board tend to have a soft-spot (specifically for frogs... that's kind of why they keep them), so when good husbandry inevitably leads to breeding and eggs, many don't have the heart to destroy eggs or cull tadpoles/froglets (even from mixed tanks).
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

... and while everyone who deals with hybrids promises to never let them out of their sight - that isn't quite the actual results we see here - hence we discourage the practice.

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Old 05-30-2011, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

I think I smell yet another mixing thread, hiding under a thinly veiled title.
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:24 AM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
I think I smell yet another mixing thread, hiding under a thinly veiled title.
We've got at least two others going on right now... let's just say we've answered the question and move on, yeah?
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

This is an easy one - what are you going to do with 50 or 100 or 200 frogs after a few years. Remember they should all live 8-10, at least. What are you going to do with them all. One season a pair of E. tricolor produced over 300 froglets for me - what do you do with them all? Kill em? The only way to not breed them is to keep the sexes separate - otherwise it'll likely happen.

Best,

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
I am just curious Why does everyone assume that anyone who has Frogs will raise and Sell Offspring...especially if they have a Mixed Species Tank.

Is there a Law which requires every Frogger to Sell Offspring that I am unaware of?
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

No it is not about Mixing. It is about everyone assuming That People will breed and Sell.

So everyone is saying that everyone must own pairs?
Otherwise People are saying not all froggers are treating their frogs in a Humane way. No matter if they house them appropriately.

Are Froggers saying A person can not own a single frog or males only?
I have seen plenty of posts saying that many froggers keep more than 1 male in a tank.

When you sell juveniles in groups do you guarantee that it is a 1:1 Ratio so as to ensure proper husbandry?
So If I buy 3 Frogs at a Show or from a Breeder what do I do with the extra Males. Or do you breeders recommend not buying tadpoles and juveniles and only buying the more expensive guaranteed 1:1 Breeding Pairs? If someone accidentally gets 3 Males instead of a 1:2 Ratio do they have to sell the extra males or have to buy extra Tanks because a single big tank is not enough?

Another attitude I have seen on here and another PDF board is that people who allow the frogs to rear their offspring are treating them cruelly because they allow nature to run its course. Is the real reason that people advocate not allowing Nature to take it's course is to maximize the profits from your breeders?
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
For most species proper husbandry inevitably leads to breeding, and a person can only keep so many of the offspring,
I would say this mostly,
my new 2.2 lamasi already have 4 trios of eggs in the tank and I know I'm certainly not keeping them all lol
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
Another attitude I have seen on here and another PDF board is that people who allow the frogs to rear their offspring are treating them cruelly because they allow nature to run its course. Is the real reason that people advocate not allowing Nature to take it's course is to maximize the profits from your breeders?

This actually isn't letting "nature take it's course" as it is an artificial system and often the results are a result of the husbandry used to care for the animals... for example, in non-phytotelmata depositing species, the space available for the tadpoles is often much smaller than that found in the wild, and the fat reserves and heavy feedings with the reduced energy out due to the smaller space allows for a faster production of a second, third and fourth clutch which further impacts the available space. While tadpoles are known to be cannibalistic, this is often a result of insufficient protein in the deposition sites in the wild and cannibalism can reduced or totally circumvented by feeding the tadpoles a diet high in animal protein..

In phytotelmata depositing species, it has been shown that increasing the deposition sites increases the population density (with possibly ventrimaculatus as an exception due to social parasitism) as there is less competition for deposition sites but again, due to the husbandry practices, we see a surplus of animals produced versus available deposition sites. Again, in the non-obligate egg feeders, we see lack of protein as a cause for cannibalism....

So you can't argue that "nature" took it's course.... as frogs are usually kept in systems that encourage unnatural breeding cycles, are fed to excess (obese frogs) to enable unnatural breeding cycles and often are unaturally deficient in one or more nutrients due to the supplements....
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
No it is not about Mixing. It is about everyone assuming That People will breed and Sell.

So everyone is saying that everyone must own pairs?
Otherwise People are saying not all froggers are treating their frogs in a Humane way. No matter if they house them appropriately.

Are Froggers saying A person can not own a single frog or males only?
I have seen plenty of posts saying that many froggers keep more than 1 male in a tank.

When you sell juveniles in groups do you guarantee that it is a 1:1 Ratio so as to ensure proper husbandry?
So If I buy 3 Frogs at a Show or from a Breeder what do I do with the extra Males. Or do you breeders recommend not buying tadpoles and juveniles and only buying the more expensive guaranteed 1:1 Breeding Pairs? If someone accidentally gets 3 Males instead of a 1:2 Ratio do they have to sell the extra males or have to buy extra Tanks because a single big tank is not enough?
No. We're saying that a vast majority don't own single frogs. When people get frogs and they hear they can have more than one in there, they typically think that, as a show animal, more is going to be better than less.

While there are those who are completely content having one or two frogs as show animals, most people who actually frequent the forum are not. They have multiple species, and they actively try to breed. Just look around the forum and compare the ones that say "do you think this is a pair" or "how do I start breeding," or froglet pictures to the threads that talk about their all male viv.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
Another attitude I have seen on here and another PDF board is that people who allow the frogs to rear their offspring are treating them cruelly because they allow nature to run its course. Is the real reason that people advocate not allowing Nature to take it's course is to maximize the profits from your breeders?
I have not seen this attitude at _all_. Some people recommend pulling because there is a greater success rate when pulling certain species (and usually when we're making recommendations about tad care (like pulling or leaving them in) the poster has asked "hey, what do you think is best,") but I've never seen anyone looked down on for leaving tads in the tank. In fact, I recommend to everyone that, although they can be pulled, imitator clade tadpoles should be left in the tank, I've never been bad mouthed because of it.
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckpowell View Post
This is an easy one - what are you going to do with 50 or 100 or 200 frogs after a few years. Remember they should all live 8-10, at least. What are you going to do with them all. One season a pair of E. tricolor produced over 300 froglets for me - what do you do with them all? Kill em? The only way to not breed them is to keep the sexes separate - otherwise it'll likely happen.

Best,

Chuck
Did you get into the Hobby because You Love the Animals or was it to sell?
I have several Ideas what could be done with the Offspring
Donate them to Schools..
Donate them to Education Centers
Donate them to People
You are not forced to do anything with your Offspring you choose how you want to get rid of them.

I am Currently working with River Bend Nature Center here in Wichita Falls to House my Collection of Frogs and Geckos so everyone can enjoy them. I will continue to buy all supplies. I will maintain the Tanks. I will feed the Animals.

My Collection currently consists of 4 White's Blue Phase Tree Frogs, 1 Red Eyed Tree Frog, 2 Panamanian Dendrobates azureus, 4 Costa Rican Dendrobates auratus, 2 Bribron's Geckos, 1 Chinese Cave Gecko, 1 Leopard Gecko, 1 Marble Gecko, 2 Kochi Day Gecko, 1 Gold Dust Day Gecko, 2 Golden Geckos, 1 Lined Leaf Tail Gecko, 1 Lined Gecko, 2 Frog Eyed Geckos, and 2 Flying Geckos.

My Goal is to have one of the largest collection in the Area. I love the New MOLA at FT Worth Zoo yet I am disappointed it has only about 4 Species of the over 100 Species of Dendrobates.

If they do not I am going to get a Place and Open my own education center. We do not have the luxury of having a Large Zoo close by. Our School system does not allow children to travel 150+ miles to go to zoos and Many people can not take their kids. People find it creepy to bring their family over to some strangers house and fork over Money to view a private collection.

Here are a few shots of my collection which I hope to be Hosted soon By River Bend Nature Center

My Golden Gecko Tank with New Universal Habit Background


And here are all the other Tanks, Racks, Lights, not to Mention a Mistking Ultimate Misting System with Seconds Timer that will also go


So should I under most peoples logic just open my Own Place and Have people pay me so I can profit because I decided to get into the Hobby and want it to grow instead of Letting a Nonprofit Education Center reap the Benefits?

Last edited by jpstod; 05-30-2011 at 05:13 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterB View Post
I would say this mostly,
my new 2.2 lamasi already have 4 trios of eggs in the tank and I know I'm certainly not keeping them all lol
You options besides selling them....Donations
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

Some of this was already thrashed around in this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/oop...ifficulty.html

Ed
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmackoftheGods View Post


I have not seen this attitude at _all_. Some people recommend pulling because there is a greater success rate when pulling certain species (and usually when we're making recommendations about tad care (like pulling or leaving them in) the poster has asked "hey, what do you think is best,") but I've never seen anyone looked down on for leaving tads in the tank. In fact, I recommend to everyone that, although they can be pulled, imitator clade tadpoles should be left in the tank, I've never been bad mouthed because of it.
Not to start a war here but This is a Direct Quote from a Board Member

"When you say that you just leave the tadpoles in there to starve... I mean come on... that's horribly inhumane."
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
Not to start a war here but This is a Direct Quote from a Board Member

"When you say that you just leave the tadpoles in there to starve... I mean come on... that's horribly inhumane."
Starvation is considered to be inhumane, so if you are letting them starve as a method of population control then they are right.. you are artificially depriving them of food.
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Where are you getting this from? There is no group of us on the board running around threatening people, telling them they have to sell their frogs! You think there is some sort of Froggy Third Reich?! "You! Over there! You must sell your froglets! Up against the wall!"
If you are keeping your frogs RIGHT and giving them a proper environment, and decent husbandry then eventually they will try to breed. You can pull them or you can let the parents raise them. I really haven't seen anyone slamming anyone else for not pulling the eggs and tads. If you provide proper husbandry and eventually produce froglets, you get to do whatever you want with them. If you want to keep 40 of the same species, bully for you! Enjoy them! Really, that's just fine with me. If you want to donate them, that's great! My hat's off to you! And I decide to trade some of mine for a different species, back off. That's MY choice and my right.
And yes. I, for one, think it's very cruel and unusual punishment to keep a single frog alone it's entire life. How would you like to be kept alone and isolated from all of humanity your entire life? Why would anyone purposefully deny them the pleasure of a relationship?
What if someone ends up with a group of three males? If they get along well, that's just fine if that's what they want. Do I think they are missing out on an enriching part of the hobby? In my opinion, yes. Do I think his frogs would be even happier with mates? In my opinion, yes. I cringe at the thought of going through my life without my wife and I won't make my frogs do it.
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Old 05-30-2011, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
. Do I think his frogs would be even happier with mates? In my opinion, yes. I cringe at the thought of going through my life without my wife and I won't make my frogs do it.
Ease up Doug, you are anthropomorphising. Dendrobatids are at best sub-social and do not show any signs of requiring stimulation from another of thier species. They are not a social species.

Subsocial behavior is "postovipositional (after egg laying) parental care that promotes survival,growth and development of the offspring"
(Tallamy & Wood 1986). Subsocial behavior can take the form of egg or
nymphal and larval guarding, the construction of simple or elaborate nests, and provisioning of offspring with food collected by the parents.
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Where are you getting this from? There is no group of us on the board running around threatening people, telling them they have to sell their frogs! You think there is some sort of Froggy Third Reich?! "You! Over there! You must sell your froglets! Up against the wall!"
I never said that..
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
So I am a Troll because I asked a Question.
And I wonder why I hardly post anything.
What word would you prefer to describe ignoring the answers that are given and continuing to push the topic with inflammatory questions?
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by Ed View Post
Starvation is considered to be inhumane, so if you are letting them starve as a method of population control then they are right.. you are artificially depriving them of food.
There is a Difference in intentionally Starving them and letting Nature take its course even in an artificial environment. If a Frog Lays say 6 eggs which survive and becomes tadpoles and if they are feed sterile eggs by the Mother she may say feed only 4 and allow 2 to die. That is Natural because she may not produce enough..Or a Female might select a Brom which dries faster than another the Tad would die.

I do not advocate intentional starvation in any way.
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
What word would you prefer to describe ignoring the answers that are given and continuing to push the topic with inflammatory questions?
Why even answer and participate if you feel that way.
I can pull post after post saying...
They Will be sold

I do not insult people because they do not post what I want to hear
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
So I am a Troll because I asked a Question.
And I wonder why I hardly post anything. I can pull post after post of people who post that Selling is the Reason not to Mix Species and It is invariably the first reason not to mix.

I simple asked why it is assumed that all froggers will sell. I never brought up mixing someone else did.
If you look at my posting history you will see I do not troll. Thank you for insulting me with your informative post.

Actually it isn't the selling of the frogs that is the problem as the problem of misreresented or misidentified hybrid/crossed frogs occurs regardless of how the frogs are transferred to another person whether it is by sale, gift, theft or even left in a will. Attempting to restrict the problem to sales is a mischaracterization of the problem.
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

I will point out that I did not Mention Mixing at all in My Question..It was another Board member who brought it into the Subject.
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
There is a Difference in intentionally Starving them and letting Nature take its course even in an artificial environment. If a Frog Lays say 6 eggs which survive and becomes tadpoles and if they are feed sterile eggs by the Mother she may say feed only 4 and allow 2 to die. That is Natural because she may not produce enough..Or a Female might select a Brom which dries faster than another the Tad would die.

I do not advocate intentional starvation in any way.
You cannot define the result of an action in an artificial enviroment as natural in any way. To use your example, the bromeilad drying too quickly is the result of either husbandry (too little water flowing into the bromeliad, and/or too little light resulting in growth that is poor at holding water and/or incorrect bromeliad choices on the part of the keeper, and/or insufficient options for tadpole deposition...)

As for the starvation issue... I already addressed how it is unnatural with it due to husbandry problems above and your argument skips over those points.. On what proof are you arguing that in the wild the female would be unable to rear all six eggs?

Ed
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
I will point out that I did not Mention Mixing at all in My Question..It was another Board member who brought it into the Subject.
The first post in the topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
I am just curious Why does everyone assume that anyone who has Frogs will raise and Sell Offspring...especially if they have a Mixed Species Tank.

Is there a Law which requires every Frogger to Sell Offspring that I am unaware of?
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:30 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by Ed View Post
Actually it isn't the selling of the frogs that is the problem as the problem of misreresented or misidentified hybrid/crossed frogs occurs regardless of how the frogs are transferred to another person whether it is by sale, gift, theft or even left in a will. Attempting to restrict the problem to sales is a mischaracterization of the problem.
Thank you Ed that is a much more Constructive reason than just because of selling. Many People are not true experts on frogs and I can see where that would be a problem especially even a person as myself trying to educate people on PDFs were to display them. Imagine a Red Azures with pink noses and purple legs. And people believing that is what they look like in the wild. I truly can not identify all species by sight and rely on what people say they are. I do not advocate any type of "Morph" breeding of any animals...especially for the purpose of making money. We know it happens. I do not buy Designer Animals.
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

You also need to take into account the many posts in the identification thread that start with "got this frog, can anyone tell me what it is".. we know that there can be significant variation within a "morph" and that some of those variations can closely match another population of the frogs (and this is even before we account for changes that can occur if the frog in question is a froglet). This is where we can run significant risks of hybrid/crossed frogs.

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Old 05-30-2011, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
The first post in the topic:


I stand Corrected My Apologies. Thats what happens when You post at 0357 Local time after being up 22 Hours straight and Reply from Emails instead of Going back and reading the whole conversation. I do tend to forget what I posted.

From My Point of few with so limited Number of Froggers near me and no local shows some of you who have more than 1 National Show and a 150 Mile away Local Quarterly show where I see may 6 Breeders at the National show and 3 Breeders at the Not so Local show it might seem like everyone is selling their offspring. Maybe in your Areas you have Daily Craigslist listings of PDFs and Dozens of Sellers at Every Sale which would Indicate Everyone is Selling Frogs. I wish I had a lot of people who were selling frogs near me so I could Haggle over price instead of Fighting over frogs. I hate getting to a Show and finding nothing left because the 6 Available frogs were sold within the first few Minutes of the Opening. I search the OK City, Dallas, Ft Worth, San Antonio and Austin Craigslists and I have yet to find a single PDF for Sale.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
I think I smell yet another mixing thread, hiding under a thinly veiled title.
Due to Email Orders this is the Reply I thought I was seeing first
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
You options besides selling them....Donations
I also want a return on my investment....if they go to good homes, how is that bad?
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
From My Point of few with so limited Number of Froggers near me and no local shows
There are tons of TX froggers who meet up on a fairly regular basis. Get in touch with Beth (BCS TX), she should be able to hook you up with info on local froggers and events.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
I am just curious Why does everyone assume that anyone who has Frogs will raise and Sell Offspring...especially if they have a Mixed Species Tank.

Is there a Law which requires every Frogger to Sell Offspring that I am unaware of?
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Due to Email Orders this is the Reply I thought I was seeing first
I did not mention mixing, until after YOU did, in the very first sentance of your very first post, in this thread. You opened with mixing...Yes, I followed up.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

Craigslist is *not* where you go to buy frogs. Seriously. Maybe tanks - but not frogs.

As Tony says - there are many VERY knowledgeable TX froggers.

s
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There are tons of TX froggers who meet up on a fairly regular basis. Get in touch with Beth (BCS TX), she should be able to hook you up with info on local froggers and events.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Craigslist is *not* where you go to buy frogs. Seriously. Maybe tanks - but not frogs.
I've been told of a couple of people finding dendrobatids on Craig's list but I have never seen them for "rehoming" on there.

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Old 05-30-2011, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

I have to say this is a very strange thread topic. Dendroboard is a husbandry site dedicated to the rearing AND breeding of dart frogs. I don't understand why someone would post the question as to why we are all talking about breeding frogs.

Every person is free not to breed their frogs if they don't want to, but I personally feel a great satisfaction in knowing that I provided my frogs a positive enough experience in my home that they could behave as they would in nature (which is to breed).

Richard.
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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I have to say this is a very strange thread topic. Dendroboard is a husbandry site dedicated to the rearing AND breeding of dart frogs. I don't understand why someone would post the question as to why we are all talking about breeding frogs.

Every person is free not to breed their frogs if they don't want to, but I personally feel a great satisfaction in knowing that I provided my frogs a positive enough experience in my home that they could behave as they would in nature (which is to breed).

Richard.
my thoughts exactly,
the more I reread this thread - the more the original post just doesn't make sense..
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
There are tons of TX froggers who meet up on a fairly regular basis. Get in touch with Beth (BCS TX), she should be able to hook you up with info on local froggers and events.
I have. I buy from Beth and Cindy and a Small group...How ever I am the Only Frogger in My Area. Beth and Cindy are 150+ Miles from Me.
At almost $4 per Gallon of Gas and a 2 Hour drive each way It ain't to convenient to just pop in on a whim and buy..

As for Shipping...it hit 110*F yesterday. We are averaging 99*F daily. They Might end up cooked.

Last Month I saw Cindy and 1 other person that Had PDFs at Lone Reptile Expo in Arlington by the time I drove down. I got a pair from Cindy.

If I had time and Money I can drive the 384 mile or as Google Maps puts it 6 23 minutes to San Antonio Texas to shop
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by jpstod View Post
I have. I buy from Beth and Cindy and a Small group...How ever I am the Only Frogger in My Area. Beth and Cindy are 150+ Miles from Me.
At almost $4 per Gallon of Gas and a 2 Hour drive each way It ain't to convenient to just pop in on a whim and buy..

As for Shipping...it hit 110*F yesterday. We are averaging 99*F daily. They Might end up cooked.

Last Month I saw Cindy and 1 other person that Had PDFs at Lone Reptile Expo in Arlington by the time I drove down. I got a pair from Cindy.

If I had time and Money I can drive the 384 mile or as Google Maps puts it 6 23 minutes to San Antonio Texas to shop
Why are you buying frogs if you are so set against anyone selling frogs? That ain't Right!
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Why do Froggers Always Assume Someone Has Frogs will Sell offspring ?

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Originally Posted by HunterB View Post
I also want a return on my investment....if they go to good homes, how is that bad?
It is not bad..It certainly is an option however it ain't the Only Option. It is the Only Option if you want to make money.
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