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Old 07-10-2005, 06:33 AM
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Default Sexing Dendrobates Imitator ( Theory )

Ok guys here is the thing. I have come up with this theory on sexing Dendrobates Imitators. This might be the dumbest thing i have ever thought off or the coolest, depending on what results come out of it. I do need some help from as many of you as possible. If you have any Dendrobates Imitators i will need for you to post pics of them on this forum, please make sure that the pictures are from the top view of the Imitator, same as i have on my Avatar. As you post the pictures i will determine if that Imi is in fact a female or male. SO i do need alot of Pictures put in there. Wether i am correct or incorrect i will post my theory once i have commented on a few Imitator. Dont be shy and post your pics and this would help me out alot in trying to figure out this myth........

Thanks In Advance
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Old 07-11-2005, 01:01 AM
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COME ON GUYS IM SURE YOU GUYS HAVE PICS....IM BEING VERY SERIOUS HERE
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Old 07-11-2005, 02:14 AM
 
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Maybe people want to hear your theory first? You could look through people's galleries...I think i have an intermedius pic if you want it (it's in my gallery).
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Old 07-11-2005, 02:47 AM
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Well my theory as stupid as it might be has a chance to work. I have so far been able to sex correctly 6 Imitators by the markings on their back.......I want to know if this is true or false and if i just got lucky. It is something to do with the lines and circle patterns...other then that ill be able to explain it once i draw some pics by hand.....
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Old 07-11-2005, 03:35 AM
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My 100% method is just to watch which restroom they use.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froglet
I want to know if this is true or false and if i just got lucky. It is something to do with the lines and circle patterns...
Circles and lines, huh? Would the markings look anything like these?



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Old 07-11-2005, 06:25 AM
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Here ya go...





Those are our guys, give it a whirl.

-Shelley
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Old 07-11-2005, 11:25 AM
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Thank you Shelly

I would say the first one is a male.....The second one even though looks like a female..the patters make me think its a male. SO in clonclusion.....Male and Male
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Old 07-11-2005, 03:59 PM
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Nope, it is a proven pair. The bottom pic is the female. What is it that you are thinking by the pattern that tells the sex? Sorry if I threw in a kink.

-Shelley
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:25 PM
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I have always been told for sexing thumbnails that the males are usually skinner than the females and that the females are a bit in a pear shape.
But there are always exceptions. But with this method I have sexed a group of intermedius ones (14 animals. and I was for 13 of them 100% correct. I only had one skin one that was a female...

But calling/egglaying is still the best method.

Thomas
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:46 PM
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It is an interesting idea, but I really think that the pattern has nothing to do with the sexes. D. imitator are great as sexing them by call is easy and can be done as early as around 3 months old. Body shape has been the most reliable method I have found for sexing them, and that just takes practice and a bit of luck.
j
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Old 07-11-2005, 09:54 PM
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I like to actually see some breeding behavior between two frogs to tell for sure. A year or so ago I sent out a,what I thought, female to Ben Green and thought for sure it was judging from it's bodysize.When he put it in with his male it commenced on kicking it's @$$.I hadn't hear any calling and it had the rotund middle but just and overweight bully from the way it sounded.
Mark W.
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Old 07-11-2005, 10:44 PM
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The Size itself is not a good way to sex them, i have males that are bigger then females. Boddy structure is a different thing, and that helps alot.

In reply to your pics, i says the first one was a Male, and i was right. The second one i sayd it was also a Male, not necessarily by the color paterns but thought i was being tricked into two males :P . I really want to try more pictures if anyone has.......the second ones patterns also show female due to the fact that the circles around the right side are alongated, and she has more then one....

So im still not finished with my Theory just because of one frog. I am still requesting more pics and if anyone would please send me some that would be great.....

*STILL NEED MORE PICS SO KEEP THEM COMING* ( whether my theory is falso or not i need more pics to verify my thoughts on this )
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Old 07-11-2005, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
The second one i sayd it was also a Male, not necessarily by the color paterns but thought i was being tricked into two males .
So did you base your guess on the fact that you thought you were being tricked? You can't really test a theory if you don't attempt to put it into practice.
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:20 AM
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Yes i know and this is why i need the pics of alot of Imitators....I am looking at color patterns and there seems to be a pattern that females have more of rectangular spots on them places differntly then males.......I need more pictures to infact both base my findings not only on color pattern, which i think does have a role to play in it but also shape/lenght......

Ok so i need more...........

POST POST POST
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:35 AM
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Well it was not easy but after many minutes, lol. Ok i finally got a good pic on one of my imitator. Edited to correct spelling error :roll:
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:52 AM
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First of all that is am amazing Imitator..Is that a red one ? The color is amazing........ I am going to say that is a male, even though the spots are very rectangular they follow a straight path down......
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:58 AM
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Thanks, i just got 2 of them from Patrick N. but i dont think there anything different. But they are more of an orangeish that a yellow. I will try and get a pick of the other two if i ever see them.
Jason
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Old 07-12-2005, 06:54 PM
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First of all, the name 'imitator' is pleural, just to clear that up. Secondly, I have it on pretty good authority that pattern has nothing to do with the sexes. There is unpublished work that I just saw showing how polymorphic both color and pattern is within populations of D. imitator and D. variabilis in the wild. Whole populations are being studied and photographed. I think it is great you took the initiative to try to develop a new way to sex them, but I just think the idea is invalid.
j
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:52 PM
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Imi1


Imi2



Even though I do not necessarily believe you can 100% reliably sex imitators by their phenotypic traits (markings, body size, shape), good job thinking "outside the box" and bringing new ideas. Best of luck.


PS No cheating buy looking at my signature regarding the sex ratio!! LOL
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Old 07-12-2005, 10:23 PM
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OK, here is another,
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Old 07-12-2005, 10:55 PM
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To Reply to Hanz Imitator pics the first one is def a male, without a doubt. I can not see the back of the other one so i will not guess on that one.......

The second from jmcc000 is also a male without question.....

I might now have this down packed to a science but i do believe that there is some color structure in the differnce between males and females.
In response to Yeager, i might not be a scientist and have not writen any books or anything like that but if i recall we used to think the world was round.

I there is anyone who is eager to disprove me 100% please post your Imi pictures. Like i sayd this could be the dumbest thing in the world but i do belive there is a pattern. At one time i did believe in Santa Claus, but hey i could be wrong again....
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
To Reply to Hanz Imitator pics the first one is def a male, without a doubt
You are correct, that is great!! This pic was taken at about 3 month of age and I didn't even know the sex at the time....it is indeed a male.

Sorry I could not get a good dorsal shot of "Imi2" but it is a female.
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:21 PM
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Would you care to elaborate on your "method", Froglet? So far it seems that anyone would have been able to base their guesses on body shape and be correct. I'd like to see some people post some imitators that exhibit reverse dimorphism, and see how much water your theory holds. Call me a skeptic, but I also never believed in Santa Claus.
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:50 PM
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This is one of my males..his pattern is semetrical almost can see its a straight line. ( not saying that females dont have that pattern but also his black spots and not as compicated as a females would be )..kinda hard to explain
]

The female shown here has very few spots but they are funky and almost looks like the Bog Thing.....they are widly shapped with no structure. If anyone can show me a male with this type of pattern please do.



I HOPE THAT MAKES A BIT MORE OF SENSE
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:16 AM
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I don't own any imitators, so these pics belong to a buddy of mine, Bill Johnson. He hasn't been around in a while, but I know he won't mind me posting these for this thread.



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Old 07-13-2005, 02:37 AM
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I Will have to say both of those are Males
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Old 07-13-2005, 03:27 AM
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I have no clue on the first one, but you are right on the 2nd one. You cheated and looked at the image URL for the 2nd pic, didn't you?
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:34 AM
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The reason why i sayd the second one is a Male is not because he looks chunky like a female..in fact his color pattern is too simple and like i showed before in a straight line going down.......And the first one its a male 100%
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Old 07-14-2005, 05:22 AM
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Have a go at this one...I have another picture if this one doesn't show you enough.



Kristen
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:07 AM
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I originally told Kristen this was a male Imitator. She Corrected me and sayd that it was in fact a female. I guess i was wrong, the color patterns have nothing to do with Sexing and my theory was incorrect. My opinion is now that due to looking at so many differnt Imitators, not only on this site but everywhere, i have learned to somewhat differenciate the difference in sexes simply by looking at the full frog. Something that alot of people are good at with their prefered species, even though not always accurate. I want to thank you all that posted pictures or ever comments, and also those who Privately Pm'd me to give me their opinion on how crazy they thought i was :P . I think this was a good experiment on my behalf and even though i didnt post the fullness of it, for my own knowledge i am satisfied with my results.

once again Thank you all

Damian G
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:28 AM
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Quote from froglet:

"In response to Yeager, i might not be a scientist and have not writen any books or anything like that but if i recall we used to think the world was round. "

Of course, we now know it's a rhombohedron...

Sorry, Damian, I just couldn't resist. BTW, I'm sure I wasn't the only one hoping you DID have a workable strategem. Thanks for having the courage to try it out online. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Plus, we got to see some very nice imitator pics.

--Diane
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