Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK? - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Dart Frogs > General Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise

Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

Like Tree12Likes
  • 1 Post By Socratic Monologue
  • 1 Post By fishingguy12345
  • 2 Post By Kmc
  • 3 Post By bulbophyllum
  • 1 Post By dablock
  • 1 Post By Kmc
  • 3 Post By markpulawski

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2020, 04:04 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 28
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

I was doing a bit of maintenance on my 60 gallon viv the other day and pulled it away from the wall to dust the back. I saw two adult cockroaches/palmetto bugs hunkered down in the gaps behind cork flats I have siliconed to the back glass as a background. Gross, yuck, eew. My two adult frogs don't seem to have any problems and I imagine since the roaches are nocturnal and the frogs diurnal, they may not really interact much at all. TBH, I have no idea how long the roaches have been in there, but it might have been for quite some time.

I imagine the roaches found their way in because I sometimes let my vining plants get a little too out of control and the leaves slightly push up the plastic part of my lid. That part is now fixed but now the roaches can't get out, not that I imagine they'd want to, I bet a viv is like heaven for them haha.

I've tried digging them out of the back with a skewer, and waiting until dark when they come out to stab or catch them. All unsuccessful. The viv is incredibly well established with a lot of plants and microfauna that I don't want to lose, so CO2, Heat, and total teardown are options I don't want to pursue. My plan at this point is to buy some boric acid baited roach tablets and make a little trap out of a plastic tupperware with a narrow slit cut out (thin enough for the roaches to slide in but not big enough for the frogs). I'll put a tab or two in the trap, and hope the roaches will eat the bait and die. I don't mind if the roaches die somewhere else in the tank, I'll pull them out if I find them, but the other microfauna will eventually clean up if they die behind something I can't reach. To be extra safe, I'll put the trap in after lights out every night, and remove before lights on each morning.

Does this sound like a good plan? From what I've read about boric acid, it's relatively frog-safe. I'm taking measures to make sure that the frogs aren't directly in contact with it. I think the only contact could possibly be from roaches tracking it out into the viv on their feet, or if the roaches die, microfauna eats them, and then a frog eats the microfauna, but that seems pretty far removed and minimal exposure.

Thanks!!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2020, 04:41 PM
Socratic Monologue's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Central WI
Posts: 2,261
Thanks: 102
Thanked 312 Times in 280 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmandajade View Post
since the roaches are nocturnal and the frogs diurnal, they may not really interact much at all.
Actually, if wanted to harass or eat a frog, I'd do it at night, when the frog is asleep. The 'nocturnal/diurnal noninteraction thesis' is a non-starter.

I'm assuming someone will be along with an idea for a food trap (maybe one with a sticky trap as part of it). Until then, I would work on securing that top. If a roach can get in, a frog can get out. (Edit: Oh, I see you said you fixed it already. You had the good idea before me. )
fishingguy12345 likes this.
__________________
I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain'd.

- Whitman

Last edited by Socratic Monologue; 09-09-2020 at 05:41 PM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2020, 05:25 PM
fishingguy12345's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,266
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 163
Thanked 77 Times in 75 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmandajade View Post
I was doing a bit of maintenance on my 60 gallon viv the other day and pulled it away from the wall to dust the back. I saw two adult cockroaches/palmetto bugs hunkered down in the gaps behind cork flats I have siliconed to the back glass as a background. Gross, yuck, eew. My two adult frogs don't seem to have any problems and I imagine since the roaches are nocturnal and the frogs diurnal, they may not really interact much at all. TBH, I have no idea how long the roaches have been in there, but it might have been for quite some time.



I imagine the roaches found their way in because I sometimes let my vining plants get a little too out of control and the leaves slightly push up the plastic part of my lid. That part is now fixed but now the roaches can't get out, not that I imagine they'd want to, I bet a viv is like heaven for them haha.



I've tried digging them out of the back with a skewer, and waiting until dark when they come out to stab or catch them. All unsuccessful. The viv is incredibly well established with a lot of plants and microfauna that I don't want to lose, so CO2, Heat, and total teardown are options I don't want to pursue. My plan at this point is to buy some boric acid baited roach tablets and make a little trap out of a plastic tupperware with a narrow slit cut out (thin enough for the roaches to slide in but not big enough for the frogs). I'll put a tab or two in the trap, and hope the roaches will eat the bait and die. I don't mind if the roaches die somewhere else in the tank, I'll pull them out if I find them, but the other microfauna will eventually clean up if they die behind something I can't reach. To be extra safe, I'll put the trap in after lights out every night, and remove before lights on each morning.



Does this sound like a good plan? From what I've read about boric acid, it's relatively frog-safe. I'm taking measures to make sure that the frogs aren't directly in contact with it. I think the only contact could possibly be from roaches tracking it out into the viv on their feet, or if the roaches die, microfauna eats them, and then a frog eats the microfauna, but that seems pretty far removed and minimal exposure.



Thanks!!
Oof, I feel your pain.

What I would do is remove the frogs, and then bait the heck out of the tank to catch the invaders. I'm not sure I'd use boric acid based baits, but I would totally get the frogs out of the tank. Anything you bait the roaches with will also get some of your microfauna, you need to be prepared for losses.

Are you going to be doing pest control for the rest of your house?
Socratic Monologue likes this.
Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2020, 05:39 PM
Kmc Kmc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 803
Thanks: 75
Thanked 47 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

I've had battle against roaches in a facility setting, that concentrated in the warmer, moister and 'foodier' areas and they did stress larger animals than frogs.

Locally I was able to corral significant enclosure centered populace clusters with topically applied heat, in opulent circumstances. 4 to 11 watt uth on a piece of tile, also glass squares used. In other words they were portable. Its same w unwanted crickets.

If the building is infested it's an ongoing cull. But it works.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2020, 05:45 PM
Kmc Kmc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 803
Thanks: 75
Thanked 47 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

The mats can be positioned laterally, against the outside glass. A smear of dog food seems to be more attractive to them than most anything they are scavenging on in a viv.

Warmer, richer, darker. Is key.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2020, 12:51 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 34
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

I just nabbed 2 of them in my imitator's tank.

I cut a plastic water bottle in half and inverted the top and stuck it in the base to make a funnel trap. I taped them together with packing tape and baited the inside with dry dog food. Placed it on its side in the tank with a leaf as a ramp to get to the entrance. It only took a couple of hours to catch them. I have used this method in the past with success.

gary
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2020, 02:45 PM
dablock's Avatar
Dedicated Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbus, Georgia
Posts: 397
Thanks: 12
Thanked 26 Times in 21 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

I've used this method successfully for years. Put some roach gel into the small container (I bought these at a dollar store.). Place the container into the vivarium at lights out, but don't do it on a feeding day as you don't want the flies to eat the gel and then get eaten by a frog. The roach will enter the container, eat the gel, leave the container and then die. You can remove both the container and the dead roach in the morning.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Roach Gel.jpg (32.9 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Cup 1.1.jpg (37.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Cup 1.2.jpg (49.8 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Cup 1.3.jpg (57.9 KB, 3 views)
Philsuma likes this.
__________________
Surinam Cobalts, Green & Bronze Auratus, Azureus, Leucs, Variabilis & Vanzos
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dablock For This Useful Post:
Philsuma (09-15-2020)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2020, 04:59 PM
Kmc Kmc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 803
Thanks: 75
Thanked 47 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

I wouldn't count on feeding off days in juxtaposition to reach gel in your viv.

Using behaviors that are predictibly consistent to manipulate by combining harmless attractants means no assuming or wishful thinking.

For anyone worried about applying a small UTH against the side of a viv, you are worrying needlessly as the mats themselves are predictable and easily measured. A small one will produce a warm spot on the glass with a rapidly vanquishing outward drop within an inch or two interior especially if no insulate material, hobby board, polystyrene flat, etc, is used to back the glass the pad is attached to.

No poison required. No risk, unless you are taping the frogs to the warm spot on the wall.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2020, 05:26 PM
Kmc Kmc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 803
Thanks: 75
Thanked 47 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

Remember also that where there are adult roaches - there are nymphs.
fishingguy12345 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2020, 09:38 PM
Kmc Kmc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 803
Thanks: 75
Thanked 47 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

The trick is to place the trap up against the wall in a far corner, I like the trap and its position to enable a pen light peek. Leave it without disturbing for enough time for the roaches to habituate to it as secure harborage. The addition of extremely attractive food and warmer than the ambient situ will cause them to collect in a cluster of adults and nymphs taking significant dents out of the vivs roach populace with its retrieve.

To be clear, for those still apprehensive about UTH because of stories that if investigated to source will reveal either misuse or accumulative heat smother factors, be assured that an undamaged unit placed on a separate pane is placed close against the viv wall or anywhere from a few mm or cm, so that Warm Air is what is warming the spot. It isn't on the viv glass itself. This negates having to use a thermostat and keeps it versatile and portable, its condition and monitor clear.

You will not crack your tank with misting etc. If you are still nervous about it put a piece of cork etc.. but you are targeting the mid to upper 80s with your topical placement.

You may even note that darts will briefly visit warm zones in repose. But that's a whole other topic.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2020, 04:16 PM
Encyclia's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 2,510
Thanks: 194
Thanked 297 Times in 275 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

This reminds me of when I used to live in Florida. I had a converted 55 gallon viv that I thought was going well. One night I shined a flashlight into the tank and there were Palmetto Bugs literally doing laps around the tank. It was so gross and I felt so bad for my frogs. Who knows how long they had to put up with that. I tore the whole tank down and started over. Good sterilization of everything that goes in the tank will eliminate some of this problem, but not all, especially if, as Kmc mentioned, you have an accompanying infestation in the house. I wish you the best in solving this problem. Sounds like you have some pretty good suggestions in this thread though putting poison in a tank with my frogs would make me super nervous, "poison" dart frogs, notwithstanding :-)

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2020, 01:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 3,939
Thanks: 43
Thanked 261 Times in 163 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulbophyllum View Post
I just nabbed 2 of them in my imitator's tank.

I cut a plastic water bottle in half and inverted the top and stuck it in the base to make a funnel trap. I taped them together with packing tape and baited the inside with dry dog food. Placed it on its side in the tank with a leaf as a ramp to get to the entrance. It only took a couple of hours to catch them. I have used this method in the past with success.

gary
Gary one of the best idea's I have seen in a long time regarding an issue so many have in this hobby, one of our unfortunate side effects in keeping darts happy is creating the perfect environ for roach species. I tried this and nabbed 3 adult roaches in 1 tank and 1 in another. I have flooded tanks to remove them which is a real PIA but effective, this is a great non toxic way to remove them without disrupting and established viv.
Encyclia, macg and Androgynoid like this.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2020, 06:20 PM
Kmc Kmc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 803
Thanks: 75
Thanked 47 Times in 45 Posts
Default Re: Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?

The Pest Control industry incorporates a Test Trap strategy. These small cardboard or plastic traps are baited and placed in buildings before treatment - the tech returns, trained to read the traps, to determine infestation levels per intensity and placement locale, using the number of roaches caught + time frame.

The bottle method mimics a read trap in my opinion. Its exciting to catch a few. Better to catch a cluster of 11, 30, 47, in one retrieve.

A population of small individuals can exist undetected for months.

For every one or two roaches caught - adding warmth will turn the read trap into a multiplicity of strong reduction. Using a 'toothier' textured trap, and warmth, turns the 3 overnight into 11, or 26. Or, after a week undisturbed - 20, 30.

Even without a food resource, warmth draws the insects. The Air Compressor for the airline tubes in the aquatic section was located in a very dry and austere area, yet roaches and crickets collected on it nocturnally, covering it in a solid layer of guano.

Other areas were lamp sockets, flo fixtures, the top of the water heater.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.