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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2019, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmk View Post
A lot of people have made good suggestions so far. But one thing I've noticed in the past week is an actual increase in posts, so that's great! But I'm also noticing those posts only getting 1 or 2 responses. So I guess one thing to actually "Revive Dendroboard" is actually use it. Make suggestions to the post, help them out, give them pointers. Dont just look at the market place and leave.


And this I agree with as well. I posted a build. Unique yes but no feedback pushed me off of the boards for a while.


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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2019, 12:57 PM
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Since I began my pdf experience in 2017 DB has been very helpful and while I have not been on site a long time my experience is very positive. Thanks to all who contribute!
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Old 04-30-2019, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

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Originally Posted by skimmy View Post
Facebook groups aren't beign shut down. Your just not aloud to buy and sell frogs anymore. But most people cant buy or sell frogs on dendroboard. Already people are flocking to a different platform where everybody can participate in all aspects. Still in this thread you see the topic of "you cant see the classifieds until you make 20 post" "stop trying to get your post count up".

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Not most people. Most scammers, sure. I would *never* buy from someone with no reputation on this board however. I'd also be extremely hesitant to sell to someone with no rep either. 25 post limit is a good thing, and any serious hobbyist should have no problem making 25 quality posts. It's a win-win for both sides, and weeds out scammers and people who generally have no business owning frogs in the first place.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2019, 01:04 AM
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I am new here.. but I find this board really helpful from an archival of knowledge perspective. Good luck finding old threads on facebook. Yes this forums use of whatever software it's using is kind of dated and not terribly user friendly.. especially when Photo posting is concerned. ****** is also good though on the vivarium subreddits. But I just feel like DB has more community potential.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

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Originally Posted by fishingguy12345 View Post
I'm new here, but what keeps folks coming back to a forum, in my experience, is:

1 Knowledgable, helpful experienced posters

2 Tolerance for "the same newbie questions all the time" (I'm a veteran searcher but without knowing the right keyword it's not always easy to find something in a hobby you're new to)

3 Encouragement and advice for people, not judgment/criticism
Agreed (and I'm new here too). I used to be very active on another forum(different hobby, different user name) and one thing that always rubbed me the wrong way was people being chastised for asking a question that had been asked multiple times before. If you don't want to answer an oft asked question, feel free not to (heck, don't even click the link), but don't make the user feel bad for asking it. They're asking for help, not judgement.

That and the posting of pictures should be way easier.

I personally have learned a ton from reading "old" threads here and appreciate the knowledge base, and people's willingness to help.

Have a great weekend everybody!

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Old 05-12-2019, 06:12 PM
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I wonder about the possibility of a voluntary fee. Donations are a tricky stick when the business running the site is for-profit. I don't think, in retrospect, that a fee for everyone is a good idea. We need the information to be freely available to the new people. Many of us who are more deeply into the hobby, or who sell and buy via the boards, would probably be willing to cough up a couple of bucks to help the effort. I still think expansion of advertising might help, the board still gets a decent number of eyeballs consistently.
There exists a tiny possibility that this site could become a payment gateway. I'm not too sure about shopping cart integration in this build of Vbulletin, but a webstore where buyers and sellers can operate independently is very much do-able these days. The "site" could take a small percentage for transactions and both parties could be somewhat protected by the e-commerce system of funds transfers. Not that I see a lot of scamming going on. A "Supporting Member" user category might be a way to generate a bit of cash and give reputation to those who become one.
The ITrader system that is shut down right now seems to be not a commerce system, but a decent rating system for transactions. Is this off because it's broken, or too much of a task to moderate?
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ravage View Post
I wonder about the possibility of a voluntary fee.
Faunaclassifieds is going through some turmoil lately over issues that are largely related to the lack of paying members (the minimum price of admission over there is a measly $25 a year).

On a different topic, I'm noticing that this next issue has featured a lot in this discussion, one that I'm very guilty of:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Running View Post
and one thing that always rubbed me the wrong way was people being chastised for asking a question that had been asked multiple times before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dendrobates frisia View Post
edit: one thing though that is a big downside of forums, which could be taken into account to help more new members staying involved, is the typical 'use the search feature' answers. such posts are common across forums, and I understand wy you'd say that. however, it comes across unwelcoming, and often doesn't really help. for example, I'll use the search through google on a subject. first page of results will be 10 topics with my question, but no answers except 'use the search feature'. then I'll finally find a thread from 5 years back with a helpfull person who links a few threads, but all or most of those threads will be dead links. eventually on the 3rd page pf google I could find a rare thread that actually has an answer, but it's 10 years old and may be completely outdated by current hobby standards.
I grew up in a time when, if you had an academic sort of question, you had to put your shoes on and go to the library. If you were really in a hurry, you'd ask a librarian to help you narrow your search, but in any event you had to go to the card catalogue (raise your hand if you've never even seen a real live card catalogue) and find the books you're looking for (or if you were pretty good with the Dewey Decimal System -- raise hands again, please -- you could peruse the shelves).

Now, this was perversely time consuming, but it had this advantage to Asking Jeeves: you learned more than you thought you would. If you have to skim a handful of books on dart frogs to find the answer to 'how many Tincs can I put in a 1/2 gallon milk carton?', you'd learn a hell of a lot about dart frogs along the way, and that's a good thing. In fact, if that's not the whole point here, then I'm in the wrong place.

Expecting a user to search first isn't chastising (SR was making that claim about other forums, but the point still holds) and shouldn't come off as unwelcoming (although I'm sure it does when I say it; I can be a social buffoon even when I'm not trying to be), it should come of as a welcome and respectful invitation to search the vast Library of Babel that is Dendroboard, and come out on the other side with more knowledge than you ever thought existed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawpScotch View Post
But for a deeper dive into topics there's no rival to this site. At least I haven't found one. Google around on any sort of frog or vivarium topic, you'll get a huge amount of links from dendroboard and a few here or there from others. It's not even close.
All that grandiose BS having been said, I'll do my best to try to answer all questions without dismissing anyone to the stacks.
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Last edited by Socratic Monologue; 05-13-2019 at 12:35 AM.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:37 AM
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Lets talk about consumers and consumer motivations. If you want dendroboard to succeed you need to let go of your personal beliefs and remember the customer is ALWAYS right.

What I am about to say might be sound harsh but if you actually want this place to succeed you need to open your heart and mind and be ready to accept criticism. Its not like this forum has not seen the warning signs and its not like people have not brought this up before.

Consumers want things to be easy and accessible. When they want something they want it now. If you give consumers what they want they will use your product.

If you go to facebook you can join and post in most groups very quickly almost instant. If you want to post a picture of video they upload it and everything to do with that is handled directly in facebook. This makes it easy. You can sign up easily and be up and running fast. remember when a person decides to sign up for a service they are investing their own time into and they probably have an emotional motivation to do it, however that motivation can slip pretty fast if you make it hard. I will clearly state that dart frog keeping is a hobby, that means people want to enjoy it not work their asses off just to contribute to a forum.

Dendroboard is the opposite. You want to post a picture you have to host it yourself this forces consumers to go learn about that whole process, something they arent even used to now days since there are no major mobile or other platforms that do not host content for you that I can think of. Also the excuses of cost are not valid any more now that dendroboard is owned by a large company (vertical scope) they are perfectly capable of leveraging economies of scale in their servers.

So simply put the easiest thing to start is dendroboard has to be willing to host good resolution images of content.

Second get rid of blocks put in place to communicate with sellers. Anyone in sales knows that getting the sale when the customer is ripe is critical and leads to heavy increases in sales. When you tell someone they have to go fart around for 25 posts before they can buy something you are basically saying hey, go to facebook you can get it faster over there. I have no problem with a limit of 25 posts to start for sale threads and sell stuff but why on earth would inhibit someone who wants to buy?

Dont charge anyone anything sorry but every other site people are using is doing it for free what makes people think that consumers are going to pay when everything else is free. Stop making excuses there was enough money in this for a company to pay someone a good chunk of change to buy this forum. Web hosting is freaking cheap now days. this site is not that complex and the people running it are professionals now.

Allow people to create accounts with other major accounts. IE people should be able to login with facebook, google, or Microsoft accounts. This allows people who want to participate to get going real fast. Now days there are millions of places that want a login and consumers cant remember it all and dont want to. Lots of them from stores to forums allow you to use alternative credentials.

Add more moderators, plain and simple a lot of stuff on this forum takes too long to get done. I ask why people say oh but its my hobby. Ok fine dart frog keeping is a hobby why is it my posts get approved so much quicker on facebook than here? If you are strapped for time add more moderators this community is over flowing with awesome people who are very reputable its not even a chore to find them. And remember that people fade in and out of the hobby so dont get complacent every 6 months to a year add the new really active people as mods.

Last edited by Pubfiction; 05-13-2019 at 05:13 AM.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 04:40 AM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

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Originally Posted by Greasy View Post
Hmm why has FB closed downed those groups?

Personally I noticed most forums are somewhat dead these days. Seems like most people are migrating to FB which is horrible in my opinion. Lots of good information are unsearchable and lost. FB is just super unorganized as well, not really all that suitable for these sort of discussions.
Think about how amazing it is that facebook is such a vastly inferior format for something like this and dispite that people prefer to go over there. Think about that, its very profound. It details perfectly what is more and less important to the consumers.

Last edited by Pubfiction; 05-13-2019 at 05:03 AM.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JPP View Post
I guess so, considering you're trying to quickly flood the board with new posts in an attempt to get your post count up.
Maybe if we remove the need to do that they wont? We tell new people, hey get a post count or you cant participate in certain things you want to, then they try to post and we say, use the search, its a hard life. Another ironic point about that is that if you remove all the fluff posts that new people make just to try to meet criteria to get something they want done then it makes dendroboard look even less used.
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

Not that anyone seems to have noticed - but the number of posts needed to get to Classifieds has been lowered.

And the "newb" requirement (with a two post minimum to gain access to posting elsewhere) has been eliminated.

May be some other changes. Hard saying for sure at the moment.

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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pubfiction View Post
I have no problem with a limit of 25 posts to start for sale threads and sell stuff but why on earth would inhibit someone who wants to buy?
I can think of two reasons off hand:

One, there are scammers out there. Lots of them. Everything from Nigerian princes to everyday ripoff artists. There aren't any here, that I've heard of. QED.

Two: this isn't a classified ad site. It is "Your source for dart frog information", says the banner up top. Prioritizing the exchange of information should be way more important than helping (non-paying) people to run a business, IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Pubfiction View Post
If you want dendroboard to succeed you need to let go of your personal beliefs and remember the customer is ALWAYS right.
I sort of understand the point you're making with this, but DB isn't some business arrangement between one business and one person. DB is a business that is trying to get me and you and her and him and them to all play nicely together. Something that affects your experience positively might affect mine negatively; we can't both be right, but we both have to be appeased. It isn't as simple as the customer is always right when the customers are dealing with each other.

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Allow people to create accounts with other major accounts. IE people should be able to login with facebook, google, or Microsoft accounts. This allows people who want to participate to get going real fast. Now days there are millions of places that want a login and consumers cant remember it all and dont want to. Lots of them from stores to forums allow you to use alternative credentials.
I strenuously disagree with this suggestion. I don't actually know what my password is here; my computer remembers it, like every other site I visit. In 2019, remembering login info is a complete non-issue.

What allowing FB/Google/etc logins would promote, though, is drive-by trolls. If someone can't take the trouble to make an account here, there is no reason to believe that they'd be any sort of "member" of DB, in the sense that they'd take time and effort to make helpful, intelligent posts.

That's almost certainly the main reason why FB groups suck so hard: all a person has to do is push one button and they can start spewing ignorance and ego. Here, people have to work a tiny bit to get started, work a little harder to get other users' attention, and work more to get respected. I don't think everything should be easy, because then nothing is worth working for, and I think having a good forum is worth working for.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:20 PM
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Dendroboard participation has absolutely dropped. The number of active sales threads use to be 6-8 pages or more.
Werenít those those good old days!?!
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue View Post
I can think of two reasons off hand:

I think the fundamental thing we disagree on is the fact that I view the world through a lens of what could go right, and you view the world through a lens of what could go wrong. You spend all your energy trying to prevent things from going wrong, so much so that you miss out on what could go right. How many people who could input great information here and become amazing contributors simply arent because they may not be computer savvy and know how to post photos or dont know how to manage password, ya actually some people have their computers crash and lose them so they do have to remember them. I know some of the most intelligent people on earth in some areas and some of them have a lot of trouble with computers. How many amazing cool things might have popped up in the for sale forum but they just didnt because the flow here isnt high enough for many hobbyist or businesses to keep up here. If you want this to be the good old boys club where there is all this vetting then thats what it will be and as the good old boys move on or die, so will the forum. Young blood is very important for communities.

Second its a free market out there, all the things above you are worried about, well facebook groups are getting along just fine with out the limitations. Other forums and sites are too. So if a person has a choice why bother going here? Thats the main point of my post, you can make a trillion excuses but the place that stops making excuses and starts making solutions will take the community. If you want this place to be a strong community you have to look at the view through other peoples eyes. If you dont well that fine, just keep up the practices and atrophy thats been going on for half a decade now.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:49 PM
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You sure about this?

How about the Sales Groups?

s
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... well facebook groups are getting along just fine with out the limitations.
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:45 AM
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You sure about this?

How about the Sales Groups?

s
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Old 08-22-2019, 01:01 PM
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I guess this doesn't help engagement here.... Some people are having trouble signing in and registering.
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Old 08-22-2019, 01:05 PM
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I guess this doesn't help engagement here.... Some people are having trouble signing in and registering.
Oof.

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Old 08-22-2019, 03:12 PM
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In addition to everything mentioned I also think these type of forums drop off because all the knowledge of the hobby has been captured. It's not really a new hobby where people are just figuring it all out. So it starts off really intense where everyone contributes what they know, it gets all hashed around then it basically becomes a knowledge center.

Why would I start a thread when its all been said before. LOL, I would probably get a response to search the threads!
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Old 08-22-2019, 03:31 PM
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In addition to everything mentioned I also think these type of forums drop off because all the knowledge of the hobby has been captured. It's not really a new hobby where people are just figuring it all out. So it starts off really intense where everyone contributes what they know, it gets all hashed around then it basically becomes a knowledge center.

Why would I start a thread when its all been said before. LOL, I would probably get a response to search the threads!
There is so much we don't know; nutrition, UV questions, egg care, all kinds of things. This is an evolving hobby; as technology improves so does the care and the husbandry. Just in the time I've been keeping darts I've seen massive changes in this hobby, and that's only in the last 15 years.
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Old 08-22-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkruse View Post
In addition to everything mentioned I also think these type of forums drop off because all the knowledge of the hobby has been captured. It's not really a new hobby where people are just figuring it all out. So it starts off really intense where everyone contributes what they know, it gets all hashed around then it basically becomes a knowledge center.



Why would I start a thread when its all been said before. LOL, I would probably get a response to search the threads!
Is that why muscle car forums are dead? Oh, wait...

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Old 08-22-2019, 04:17 PM
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In addition to everything mentioned I also think these type of forums drop off because all the knowledge of the hobby has been captured.
Not. Even. Remotely.

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Why would I start a thread when its all been said before. LOL, I would probably get a response to search the threads!
A common sentiment, it seems. One of the reasons to search first is that usually you'll get better information. When a question gets asked, the only answers are going to come from people who are currently using the forum -- which are not likely going to be the most knowledgeable on that particular subject.


Another reason is that one important aim here is to increase knowledge. An example: ask about Vitamin A and you'll get some helpful but basic answers. If you search for Vitamin A here, you will get references to journal articles, anecdotes from zookeepers, Allen Repashy's comments, etc. Clogging the archives with the responses of whoever is currently interested is, frankly, going to dumb down the overall collection of knowledge through a kind of dilution. If we start by searching the archives, though, and then ask any questions that haven't been answered there, we actually add to that knowledge.
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Old 08-22-2019, 04:25 PM
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Those people likely used EMail addresses that they no longer control when they created their account. That's where you reset your passwords.

If you want to have them contact me (Scott_4 AT Yahoo DOT Com) - I'll see what I can do for them.

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I guess this doesn't help engagement here.... Some people are having trouble signing in and registering.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:00 PM
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So has anything happened with image hosting? That does seem to have been a big difficult issue.

I refuse to use Facebook so Iím thrilled selling there is getting harder, feel like Iíve been missing lots there. I hope more traffic comes back here.
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:36 AM
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Just a quick FYI...

I just saw an exchange on FB where four different people were explaining that they were unable to register here after several attempts.
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Old 08-23-2019, 05:52 PM
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AGAIN - my contact info is a few posts above.

Have them contact me with specifics.

s
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Just a quick FYI...

I just saw an exchange on FB where four different people were explaining that they were unable to register here after several attempts.
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:34 PM
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I think the fundamental thing we disagree on is the fact that I view the world through a lens of what could go right, and you view the world through a lens of what could go wrong. You spend all your energy trying to prevent things from going wrong, so much so that you miss out on what could go right. How many people who could input great information here and become amazing contributors...
I'm sorry, but have you seen Socratic Monologue's posts? They are some of the most helpful and generally positive people I have seen on the forum.
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Philio View Post
I'm sorry, but have you seen Socratic Monologue's posts? They are some of the most helpful and generally positive people I have seen on the forum.
Yes, but those posts are not what he was posting in this thread, and this recent uptick is just more evidence for why I made the comments I did. Here we are with multiple people unable to register, maybe they are not computer savvy, maybe they lost their password all those things that we discussed. Maybe if they were able to create an account here or post with just their facebook login everything would be fine. Instead, they have to personally email Scott and try to sort it out. And the vast majority of people will not post this on facebook or email Scott, they are simply lost participants that you never even realized you missed.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

FYI - we've let VS know they've got an issue here (specifically pointing to this thread). Hopefully they'll figure out the issue.

s
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

I've been registered on DB for almost a year (though I've lurked for ages) but I've really only started posting in the past several weeks, primarily to gain access to all of the forum's features (like viewing my own profile, let alone editing it??).

I think the reason I never bothered was because there was nothing for me to contribute to? Or that's how I felt, at least. I don't keep darts and am here mainly for the the vivaria aspect of DB, so I have nothing to discuss with 90% of this forum. I can talk about plants and a handful of non-Dendrobatid herps, though there isn't much audience for the latter.

Dendroboard feels kind of like...a library. It's a great source of information, but it's not what most people would seek out for socialization. The majority of people are going to walk in, find what they need to know, and walk back out. If they have a question, they might ask. A strict, professional, informational platform isn't inherently a bad thing (it's great when it comes to learning about animal husbandry!) but it does sort of give DB a "no fun allowed" vibe. DB isn't "fun" or entertaining (again, not a bad thing!!), so it's not going to harbor a lot of active casual conversation when users could pop over to FB, instagram, twitter or whatever to share the quick thing they want to share.

Solving the image hosting/posting problems & visual and interface improvements would definitely make the site more user-friendly. It might be nice to see site-sanctioned things like contests make a return (I don't know if there's a reason they stopped) or even forum threads that encourage users to share their thoughts and experiences despite how involved in the hobby they are (along the lines of "What did you discover recently?" or "What's your dream frog?" - things that aren't necessarily about information but still encourage hobby involvement and maybe expose members to something they haven't seen before). I know, at least from my marketing experience, that the best way to get people talking is to start with a question they can all answer.

That's my few cents, I guess. DB is alive as ever in the sense that it's a source of information. But getting people to talk to each other is a problem for all forums everywhere, and there's not really a solution to that problem yet.
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Old 08-24-2019, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

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AGAIN - my contact info is a few posts above.

Have them contact me with specifics.

s
OK. Sorry. I just missed that skimming above. I'll do that next time.
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

As I read through this and reflected on why I've left this forum for more social media oriented interfaces, I agreed with much of what was said. The image issue is HUGE. For buying and selling purposes Facebook had an edge as I was able to post sale ads quickly from my phone. While I agree that there is much more to this hobby than the marketplace, let's please not discount the importance of buying and selling to this hobby. Very few, if any, froggers are in this for profit imo. Buying and selling is just one way we make connections with fellow froggers. Acquiring new species has been a huge part of the driving force for me to learn more as I am sure it has been for many.

That being said, the image issue is out of the control of most of us. What is in our control is posting more- which Shaun hit on perfectly...

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Really, all that needs to be done to 'revive' Dendroboard is for users to continue to post their content here - it's that simple.
The app has also helped. Since I've installed the app on my phone, I've looked at DB more than in the past 3 years.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:46 PM
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So any updates on what's happening? Eager to see more classifieds traffic coming back here... as someone who refuses to use facebook I know I'm missing out on a lot...
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

Not a lot more is going to change here - for now at least.

New folks are no longer limited to the "pen".

We've lowered the needed post count from 25 to 10 to work with Classifieds.

It's more accessible and less likely to drive folks away before they gain access to Classifieds.

s
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Old Yesterday, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

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Lots of great information and ideas being shared but one stated above about and annual fee for people willing to support the site makes sense. I pay it to Tapatalk right now and would gladly divert that funding to DB to help it get the updates it needs to the site. In this day and age that would be such a minimal expense to retain and grow the knowledge available here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Honestly, although this sounds nice its not the problem and would not do anything because it is not part of the business model. Dendroboard is now owned by a large company, vertical scope, this company absolutely has the resources to modernize the forums in any way they want if they so please without charging people anything. On top of that they could make a single modern format and apply it to the hundreds or perhaps thousands of forums they have. Thats not what they are interested in, all they care about is the ads and keeping those ads running at the lowest price possible.
Just to put it in perspective, when whatsapp was sold to facebook for 19 billion they had 55 employees, vertical scope has over 200 employees.Its not a money issue, its a will/business model issue. The otherproblem that has to be confronted is the selfishness of the community. People say this coming a mile away and there was an attempt by many community members to address it. unfortunately selfishness and lack of cooperation destroyed that attempt.
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Old Yesterday, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

Scott,

Thanks for your help registering. I went to a different location (different IP address) and I registered with no problem.

Marty141
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Old Yesterday, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Reviving DB

Regarding the closure of frog groups on Facebook:

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-...712-story.html


we also had similar closures with German groups on Facebook.
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