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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2008, 12:48 PM
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Default Online Magazine

Hello everyone,

My progression into PDF's originally started through freshwater aquaria, then saltwater aquaria, and then finally into PDF's. During my time on saltwater aquarium forums, I enjoyed the online magazines created by those forums. Thus I was wondering if the community thinks it possible to put together a quarterly or monthly online magazine?

Thanks,

Isaac
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Old 06-21-2008, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I'm sure we could do it, the expertise and the skills are here, it would just be a matter of someone taking the initiative/lead...
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Old 06-21-2008, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

The chameleon hobby has one,
http://www.chameleonnews.com
I find it very useful, I think an online magazine for darts would have a lot of really good issues,
really good photos, and really useful information. It would also be
A HECK OF A LOT EASIER
to look through issues for information, than to look though forums for information, that can get tedious and discouraging at some points.

What do we need to do to get started?
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Old 06-21-2008, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

*Cough* Leaf Litter *Cough*

there are also a few others out there but none that I know of translated to english
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

And that costs money.

I was thinking of something a little more hobby oriented that was free and did not have to be translated.

I think it would be a good resource for beginners. And it would be another feather in dendroboards proverbial hat.

--------------------

As for what is needed to get started would be:

A place to post.
The boards support.
And editor and lead designer.
A design team.
A graphics team.
Writers.


The first two would be critical before even getting started. In order maintain the quality of the magazine and continuity, there would need to be a head editor in charge of all the final decisions. He/She would then need the support of a design 'team' to provide creative input and help find writers, stories, resources, etc. The graphics 'team' would put together the finished product for 'publication'. Then you have the writers who might change with each issue, but they would provide the articles.
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

Quote:
Originally Posted by cindre2000
And that costs money.

I was thinking of something a little more hobby oriented that was free and did not have to be translated.

I think it would be a good resource for beginners. And it would be another feather in dendroboards proverbial hat.
I'm sorry I fail to see how Leaf Litter is cost prohibitive and not hobby oriented.
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I do not have an issue with the cost, I am sure it is for a good cause. However, I would prefer a free magazine associated with this board. I do not have a TWI membership, thus I cannot access the magazine to see it's content. However, the purpose of this thread is not to see what magazines are out there, but to see if individuals on this board are interested in creating a Dendroboard periodical.
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

You do relies twi is a sponsor? So if other people did a db one that be like taking money from coca-cola and selling pepsi. Their is plenty of good beginner info in the care sheet section and if you need advise on something specific do a search. Its a good idea buts its already being done.
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

There is a care sheet user group for those who are interested in writing articles for our care sheet section. Our community is not as large as some of the other sites who have these monthly magazines..
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Old 06-22-2008, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Ferriera
You do relies twi is a sponsor? So if other people did a db one that be like taking money from coca-cola and selling pepsi. Their is plenty of good beginner info in the care sheet section and if you need advise on something specific do a search. Its a good idea buts its already being done.
Brian
TWI is not a sponsor. DB sponsors TWI, not the other way around.
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

Thier in the sponsors section how ever you look at it what I said is still relevant.
Brian
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

No matter who sponser's whom, it is not relevant to this conversation. TWI is collecting money for conservation purposes, Dendroboard is a non-profit community of PDF enthusiasts. They are not competing in any way.

There are a couple of small communities that have magazines. It is not the size of the community that matters, is the drive and dedication of the members of that community. All that really matters is whether or not the members of this community are willing to put together a quarterly or monthly magazine, and whether a few choice individuals step up to the plate to organize such a task.
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:25 PM
 
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Default Re: Online Magazine

hey everyone,
being mainly a lurker of dendro, i've found every contribution i've read helpful on some level.

I am a photographer and graphic designer, and also have a little bit of web design and building experience.
so where I can help, I'm offering myself!

let's do this.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I think everyone shoud just pony up and join TWI and get Leaf Litter. I feel the board is informative and fun to read as it is. Time to reflect on guru's to newbie's opinions and not have to download a bunch of possible fecal.

guess I am in a mood tonight

Sally
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

(Sorry this is long, 2am and too much coffee today...<3) A recipe for ideas!! :idea: :idea: :idea:

Leaf Litter is only published semi-annually? And there's not even a Spring 2008 article out yet?...Six articles x twice a year??....And you have to pay for it??... That's 1 article a month. How many new posts and discussions are started on here each DAY.? :wink:

I dunno how I feel about that, there's enough information on vivariums, substrates, culturing ideas, innovative ideas for airflow and drainage, lighting, heating, custom design, etc etc etc. nevermind the frogs themselves, to have some info published quarterly.




The style of http://www.chameleonnews.com online e-zine is a good example/template to follow for a dart frog specific one.

-Monthly or quarterly
-Themed issues, like a region in Brazil issue, or a Panama issue, or a Conservation issue, or a Phyllobates issue, Dendrobates issue, plants issue, etc etc etc.
-Volunteer articles on any of the various topics related to dart frogs
-Every issue could have an article about different feeders or related to culturing feeders
-Every issue could have an article dedicated to innovative ideas that make life easier for either us or our frogs
-Lots and lots of pictures!!
-Eventually possibly some sponsored photo contests or essay contests. Recently on Canadart.org (your northern cousin) had a contest sponsored by UnderstoryEnterprises to design a flyer that they could hand out at conventions, just a one page flyer with general info on dart frogs to hand out to people at shows, for a prize of 100$ to spend at their website. I thought that was such a good idea compared to the generic photo contest; this way the sponsor of the contest gets something they can use to help their business and the hobby.
-I was going to suggest a Q&A article to each issue, but that's better left to the forum. :idea:




Here are some examples of e-zine material!!

This thread is such a great innovative idea that it's more than worthy of being published on an e-zine http://www.dendroboard.com/parts-con...html?hilit=fan

That was brilliant!! And there's so many innovative ideas like that, and if you're gone for a few days and there's 15 pages of new posts, it's easy to miss.

Another good example would be that thread that's currently going on about plaster inserts and springtail culturing. http://www.dendroboard.com/food-feed...lit=springtail

That type of stuff is great e-zine material.






The ''issue'' with forums is that a lot of the time the experienced guys that have been around forever with all their wisdom, they get tired of posting the same things over and over again. You do a search for something and you have to weed through literally hundreds of posts to get the information you're actually looking for. You get that same information in an online e-zine and it's so simple to find, it's gold.

Another ''issue'' is that on a forum something really interesting might only be discussed once, then forgotten and no noob is going to know what keywords to search for to find that information to help them along. Like those two links I just posted about the fan that won't affect humidity by having ventilation to the outside, but still allow for really great airflow; and the thread about the springtail hotel. You won't find those threads by doing a search on 'ventilation' or 'springtails' yet they're two great ideas that make life for you and your frogs better and everyone should know about it.

The forum is great for day-to-day issues, support and discussion; no hobby would evolve without discussion. In fact, the forum will end up being the inspiration for most of the e-zine issues. But having archival information that can be useful and EASILY looked through would help a lot for the noobies, and for keeping up with new information in the dart world; like new species, classification changes. When you go away for a few weeks or months, you miss a lot of important forum posts.

What I'm getting at, is that the e-zine wouldn't replace the forum. The forum would be the backbone of the e-zine

And could I make a request that the first issue have info about the revision of the Dendrobates genus? Like the Ranitomeya, Oophaga, Excidobates, Adelphobates. I think that's a pretty foggy area still...

That's my .02cents, now I wish I'd been in the hobby for more than just 18 months so I could contribute something :|
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Old 06-25-2008, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Leaf Litter is only published semi-annually? And there's not even a Spring 2008 article out yet?...Six articles x twice a year??....And you have to pay for it??... That's 1 article a month. How many new posts and discussions are started on here each DAY.? :wink:

I dunno how I feel about that, there's enough information on vivariums, substrates, culturing ideas, innovative ideas for airflow and drainage, lighting, heating, custom design, etc etc etc. nevermind the frogs themselves, to have some info published quarterly.
You're PAYING to join TWI witch is a group of people that have busted thier butts trying to make this more then just a hobby. Every one of the people that contribute are extremely great people and have all work for a living. Thier are only so many hours in a day, and frankly having TWI is more important the an online magazine



Quote:
The ''issue'' with forums is that a lot of the time the experienced guys that have been around forever with all their wisdom, they get tired of posting the same things over and over again. You do a search for something and you have to weed through literally hundreds of posts to get the information you're actually looking for.
I have done many searches on here and I have no idea what your talking about you dont have to weed through anything


Brian
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Old 06-25-2008, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I believe the frequency of publishing leaf litter is due to the resources available (writers, publishers, etc.). I would encourage those interested to join TWI and offer to help with the magazine.
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

You know... griping/whining about something that does not exist sounds like a recipe to ...

Create it!

I realize you actually kind of said this already - but put your energy into the project (and recruiting for it).

Actually, that is much how Dendroboard came into existence. Someone was told (on FrogNet) to quit whining about it (we won't say <cough>who</cough> said this (but it might've been me)) and go do it.

Joe did - this is the result.

Not bad ...

s
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I think a community generated magazine could be fun. So many good conversations happen here, and some get stickied, but a magazine could be a good way of making the ideas more concrete and user friendly. Who is going to take the lead?
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I would be willing to put myself forth as lead or one of the design team. But before we get to ahead of ourselves we will need to make sure we can get the magazine hosted and set up properly.

The magazine that brock linked to (http://www.chameleonnews.com) is a really nice template of how to start. Nice and simple, easy to set up.
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

just in case you use the dendrboard name ya might wanna ask kyle
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:25 PM
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I am a graphic designer, Let me know if you need any help, dan
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:16 PM
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I don't really see why all this time, creativity, and energy can't go toward TWI and Leaf Litter. You guys have the chance to actually do something good and bigger but instead you're going to re-invent the wheel??
Ya know, I haven't really found the time to volunteer to help out with TWI. After reading this thread I'm going to make the time.
I don't know... am I expecting too much from other people? :?
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I understand the idea of putting some of the info in an easier to find place but I think Kyle has done a pretty good job with the stickies. There are times when I am looking for some piece of info and I just take some time and do a search and read. Is it time consuming, sometimes, but I always pick up new info that I wasn't expecting. TWI is doing a great thing and Leaf Litter offers some stuff that we don't always get elsewhere. I agree that it makes more sense to join something already established and help it grow stronger than try and do something similar.

Yeah, you have to spend $35 dollars to join TWI to access the magazine but the money is going to a good place and you'll have the benefit of being a part of something that is going to change the dart frog hobby and make a difference in the amphibian conservation.

Nate
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I get the impression that Leaf Litter is a very official magazine, written by authorities who know what they are talking about and have something of benefit to say. If a magazine was created, I would see it as more of an opportunity to improve ones writing skills and collect everyones thoughts on a subject. My 2 cents.
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

just FYI from the TWI volunteer forums...

Quote:
[Leaf Litter] open call for two things:

Articles - if you have a piece you would like to submit (or idea you would like to turn into an article but want some feedback or more direction first), please contact me. Topics should fall somewhere within the threefold focus of the magazine:

- captive husbandry
- conservation issues/projects
- travels to wild amphibian habitats

Keep in mind, although there tends to be a rather strong emphasis on PDFs, articles and submissions should in no way be limited to these specific amphibians. The possibilities are wide open for all tropical species, neotropical, temperate, etc.

Photos/Images - authors generally provide their own images and photos to compliment their articles...but we would like to build a small library of amphibian images that can be used in various places throughout the magazine. Examples of preferred subjects include:

- photos of individual specimens.
- photos of species in their native habitat.
- photos of native habitat.
- photos of people working on conservation projects.

Because of the possibility that isses of Leaf Litter may at some point be sent to print, we ask that all submitted images be 300 dpi or higher to ensure a high quality product.

Contact me or send submissions to: [Ron Skylstad] [email protected]
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Old 06-28-2008, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I am sorry that some individuals feel that an online magazine would compete with TWI's Leaf Litter, however, the intent of the magazine is not to compete with Leaf Litter and attempts will probably be made to prevent too much overlap. This magazine idea is not out the crush Leaf Litter, it is an attempt to provide another facet to this site, a facet that is actually fairly common in other such sites, and a facet that I feel is very useful and compatible.
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

Quote:
Originally Posted by markbudde
I get the impression that Leaf Litter is a very official magazine, written by authorities who know what they are talking about and have something of benefit to say. If a magazine was created, I would see it as more of an opportunity to improve ones writing skills and collect everyones thoughts on a subject. My 2 cents.
-mark


Some comments on this and then I have a very busy schedule to deal with for the next couple of days so I may not be able to get back here..

And what makes a person an authority? I have written for TWI and I readily admit that some of you know way more than me on a lot of things like many thumbnail species.

TWI needs people to write articles for this magazine. If the desire is to improve your writing skills Leaf Litter is a good place to write an article as we have people (like myself) who will help with the editing of the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cindre2000
I am sorry that some individuals feel that an online magazine would compete with TWI's Leaf Litter, however, the intent of the magazine is not to compete with Leaf Litter and attempts will probably be made to prevent too much overlap. This magazine idea is not out the crush Leaf Litter, it is an attempt to provide another facet to this site, a facet that is actually fairly common in other such sites, and a facet that I feel is very useful and compatible.
Actually there would be a huge overlap whether it was intended or not... first off it would remove potential authors from the pool of people who would contribute to Leaf Litter
second: there is no way that the articles would not be on the same/similar subject matter
third it is in part targeting the same audience

If you want an honest opinion, TWI and Leaf Litter are gettting to a delicate stage in thier development. It is still all volunteer (meaning no one gets a salary) and we are finally just starting to get the funding to where we can apply for small matching grants to help with amphibian conservation and costs. Anything that majorily disrupts the growth of TWI at this point could very well set it back for years if it doesn't kill it.

Granted I have a personal stake in seeing TWI and Leaf Litter prosper as I have donated a lot of time and effort (but not as much as some people) to getting it off the ground.

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Old 06-28-2008, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I suppose I should chime in here as I see a few misconceptions that I feel should be cleared up.

First off, as someone mentioned, no one pays for Leaf Litter: it is a perk for people who decide to become members of TWI. The magazine itself is completely free. A standard TWI membership is $35 (which averages out to just under $3/month...I know people who spend considerably more than that on FF's each month!) and a student membership is just $20/year.

Quote:
I get the impression that Leaf Litter is a very official magazine, written by authorities who know what they are talking about and have something of benefit to say.
I'm not sure where that impression came from as at least half (if not more) of the articles we've published so far have been written by average hobbyists...most of them members of Dendroboard. Yes, there have been some articles by people who work at botanical gardens or zoos or other similar institutions, but since TWI is comprised of people from all sorts of backgrounds and fields and interest levels, we try to include that variety of voices within the pages of Leaf Litter. Because of this, you will often find an article written by Joe Schmoe Hobbyist placed right next to one written by Joe Schmoe, PhD. Leaf Litter is a demonstration of the true collective of voices, experience, and knowledge of everyone interested in amphibians and their care and conservation.

Also, and I can say this from personal experience, there is FAR MORE work involved in putting something like this together than you might initially suppose. In the beginning, I had planned on Leaf Litter being released quarterly. I was extremely naive. Someday that might be possible, but at the moment, given the fact that EVERYTHING is done through voluntary efforts (from editing to donated images to articles to the design and layout), we settled on a regular and consistent twice-a-year release schedule.

I actually came into this hobby after spending quite a few years in the reefkeeping hobby, and am aware of some of the more prominent online magazines out there. However, last I checked, one was taking a hiatus as the volunteers had become overworked and burnt out...and the other had moved forward beyond the volunteer-driven model and is now functioning with various funds, now actually purchasing articles and submissions from authors, etc.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I say do the Magazine...
We all have different tastes, and im for magazine and not the hardcore TWI stuff.
Listen to em all ... Sheesh !!!
different people can do what they want, let them. You did.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
We all have different tastes, and im for magazine and not the hardcore TWI stuff.
What specifically do you mean by "hardcore?" I'm assuming this assumption is based on the fact that you've actually seen and read through an issue of Leaf Litter? If so, we would greatly appreciate any feedback you may have about this.
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

Does Leaf Litter accept advertising? Just curious.
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

no, im referring to all your attitudes.
reread this thread and look closely at all you twi responses.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:40 PM
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TWI is hardcore because it's the real deal...doing something about the great amphibian die-off. Not a bad thing to be associated with and for $25 a year, a real steal. About 7 cents a day.

People are of course free to create whatever communication vehicles they want on topics of their choosing. Kyle would have to decide whether he wants DB associated with a given endeavour.

Personally I think it's easier (perhaps better) to augment existing forms of communication as opposed to replication, perhaps even duplication of effort.

Bill
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Old 06-29-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Does Leaf Litter accept advertising? Just curious.
No, we don't. This is actually something we've talked about for quite some time and recently came to the decision to not accept advertising for a couple reasons. First, we want to keep the magazine fairly clean and uncluttered--we would prefer those pages that might otherwise be filled with ads to actually be used for further content about amphibians, maybe another article or photo essay that we wouldn't otherwise have room for. Second, if we open the door to accepting payment for space...we have to keep the door open. This is something we weren't comfortable with as anyone can pay for space in the magazine and put whatever they want in that space. Some herp publications have had experiences of people purchasing "ad" space but then using that space to insert personal messages or try to push personal agendas, try to sell animals, etc. We have decided to just steer clear of that altogether and remain as focused as possible on the mission of the magazine.

We realize that by not accepting advertising (and the funds that it generates) definitely limits some of the things we can do...but we're accepting those limits in order to provide as much content as possible within the pages of the magazine.

Quote:
no, im referring to all your attitudes.
reread this thread and look closely at all you twi responses.
I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel like I portrayed any sort of negative attitude. I stated that I was simply clearing up some misunderstandings and false assumptions in order to prevent them from becoming common thought. Also, for those who have been talking about creating this other periodical, I just shared my own personal experience and thoughts in putting something like this together. It's fun and exciting to talk about ideas and ventures, but the romanticism fades pretty quickly when it comes down to the nuts and bolts (and hours of personal time and effort that must be devoted) into actually creating something that is sustainable and of quality. Anyone considering such a venture should be completely aware of this. This isn't personal opinion or attitude: it's pure and simple fact.

As for my personal opinion on the matter, everything else aside, I have to agree with what Bill just said: this seems to be replicating/duplicating what is already being done and shared through Dendroboard and other venues. Given the amount of time and energy I've already mentioned something like this requires, I would think the enthusiasm and energy expressed here would be better served in augmenting what is already happening, whether it be Dendroboard or Leaf Litter. But, obviously, you're going to do what you want to do...and you of course have the freedom to do so.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I am open to the idea and had someone bring it to my attention via a PM.

From my perspective I have no problem hosting them and or integrating them into the site. I would thought prefer to keep it care based as I would much rather support TWI on the conservation front.

We can create a section to build the ideas for the people interested, but sadly I can not run the whole thing as I am just too busy right now. I can though provide a place to have the creative work done and host up the final product. Simply putting this into a page on the site would make it free and open to all.

I would also suggest we move this to the feedback section, but ill wait to see more of the comments before moving it.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

I see it both ways to be honest. I think some kind of magazine could be interesting, if not very fun. But here are my thoughts.

First, I am a TWI supporter (I will try to keep my attitude to a minimum ). Leaf Litter is a great publication to have access to. Regardless of whether we do a magazine or not it is worth the donation just for the access!

My problem with the magazine is that most experienced members we have that I would like to see contribute are either very busy, or are involved with Leaf Litter. So I would be cautious about what got in as content. I think people might give an idea more weight than it deserves because it is in a magazine type format.

Something I had the idea for a few weeks ago was a recap post. I felt there were many good threads that others might be missing, so I consolidated them into this.
http://www.dendroboard.com/general-d...opic41033.html
We might be able to do something this simple to keep important threads at the top of the pile so to speak. Maybe once a month have a few members put together a "Best od DB" thread. You could even have one for pictures I guess. That way we are consolidating a lot of great information into one area. I have tried to do this myself with posts like this. http://www.dendroboard.com/beginner-...opic38749.html and this http://www.dendroboard.com/plants/topic37050.html

There is a lot we can each do to make sure all of this great information does not get lost. I would be happy to put something like this together once a month or so. This just seems simpler to me. I have even seen others write synopsis of larger threads that were cool.
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Old 07-02-2008, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

As a side note, this is basically the same thing Kyle has been doing already.
http://www.dendroboard.com/general-d...opic18325.html
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Online Magazine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mywebbedtoes
As a side note, this is basically the same thing Kyle has been doing already.
http://www.dendroboard.com/general-d...opic18325.html

Egad, common sense strikes again 8)

Bill
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoisfive
Personally I think it's easier (perhaps better) to augment existing forms of communication as opposed to replication, perhaps even duplication of effort.
This is kind of what made me think of it Bill. I agree with you, the information is there, we just need to use it, not reinvent it. I do think some of the stikies could be updated, because it is a shame when a really good thread dies off and new members do kow know it was there. So I do think we could do a better job of keeping that info to the fore.
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