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Old 10-19-2007, 12:36 AM
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Default Rio Branco Group and offspring

This is my group of Rio Branco, 1 male and 3 females and the offspring they have produced so far. Interesting how the offspring apparently have taken on the main look of the females, not sure what this means if anything but i found it interesting.

So here is the male1 and female1:


Male1


Female1


Female2


Female3


Offspring1 (assumed from m1 and f1)


Offspring2 (assumed from m1 and f2)



Offspring3 (assumed from m1 and f2)


I suppose that female3 could be a parent but not sure. Initially I debated putting this one in the group but after looking at tons of pictures other than being obviously more red it is near identical to female2.

Thoughts and comments welcomed.
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Old 10-19-2007, 02:08 AM
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sweet frogs!! do you have the females housed in the same eclosure? or all in different ones and just rotate the male?
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Old 10-19-2007, 02:12 AM
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Great work Robb. Nice to see some of these reproducing. I wish my red pair would give me some froglets :roll:
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Old 10-19-2007, 02:42 PM
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Robb
Thanks for the post.
I've got 1.2 yellow, 1.1 yellow, 1.1 orange, 0.3 red and little in the way of offspring.

I'd love to hear your take on set-up design and pearls.

I'd certainly be open to posting pics and specifics of me set-ups as well, [but who wants to know what isnt working :-) ]

S
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:00 PM
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I've got the 1.3 in a large 70 gallon. Nothing special, 4 bromeliands and a few other plants. Lots of airflow.

I have another 1.2 in a 40ish gallon tank (less airflow) that have produced 1 froglet and 1.1 in a 15 (very little airflow) that have not produced any. Maybe they like it drier, more space? Possibly just luck.

Then I have 1.1 of the "cristobal" (which I'm positive now are not from the island). These are in a 10 vertical and have produced one spindly.
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rozdaboff
Great work Robb. Nice to see some of these reproducing. I wish my red pair would give me some froglets :roll:
Hey Rob, does your red pair look like my female3 or do they have the blue legs?

Also how come I can't edit my original post? I was going to fix the broken image link...
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:51 PM
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I don't have any pics of my pair - they are a bit reclusive. I am pretty sure their legs are a grayish color - but I would have to check to be sure. I shot this pic of Shawn's (sports_doc) Red Rio at his place last month. Mine look nearly identical to his, but again, I need to check on the leg coloration to verify.



As for the edit feature - there is a new mod that limits post edits to within an hour of posting. There were some issues with people going back and erasing their posts. I fixed the tags (I didn't notice it the first time). If you ever notice something that needs correcting after the hour - just PM a Moderator or Admin.
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Old 10-19-2007, 03:58 PM
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heres a yellow one

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Old 10-19-2007, 03:59 PM
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? same frog Oz photo'd

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Old 10-19-2007, 04:00 PM
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another in that group of unpaired girls

the other one is blue legged, same body pattern.


S
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:03 PM
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OK good info Robb,

Looks like the 'secret' may be the larger tank size.

Mine in 10's, 15's and 20H's havent produced much....

So, I need more space I bet....which aint easy.

That 'pearl' though I've heard from Tuss as well...."larger tanks outproduce the small set ups consistently".

S
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:53 PM
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that yellow one is amazing!!
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:51 PM
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If the one's oz are talking about were from me, here is a link to the male



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Old 10-19-2007, 06:55 PM
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Thanks Rob - I was going to ask you if you still had that picture.
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sports_doc
OK good info Robb,

Looks like the 'secret' may be the larger tank size.

Mine in 10's, 15's and 20H's havent produced much....

So, I need more space I bet....which aint easy.

That 'pearl' though I've heard from Tuss as well...."larger tanks outproduce the small set ups consistently".

S
Don't know if this is relevant. But I came home from IAD this year to find 7 new froglets in my 90 gal. blue jeans setup (from one pair of adults). They've produced 9 froglets in the past 8 months I believe. I mention this to show that when pumilio setups are dialed in right, they are by no means slow producers.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:43 AM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

Ok I have to ask because yes I'm new to the hobby but this was something I had asked about a yellow rio bronco and now that I see red it makes me wonder alot more....

Your Rio Bronco


Bastimentos


Now I'm curious does your Rio Bronco have a white stomach?

EDIT: Not trying to cause waves but they are both Pumilio and have variable color offspring....

EDIT #2: Hopefully he doesn't mind me using his picture but here is a Bastimentos Froglet as well....


Last edited by dwdragon; 10-09-2008 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:20 AM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

Here are two pictures of my female Rio. I was also wondering about the stomach color of Rios.

My male died unfortunately so I will be in the market to get a male soon if anyone has one to sell or trade.




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Old 10-09-2008, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

The stomachs are mostly white some more "mottled" with other colors than others. Some do look a lot like bastis. Just remember that a lot of morphs look similar and in some cases near identical to other morphs. You have to go with the best information you have on their lineage/import and not by looks alone.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

Some pix showing the variability in the offspring from my group.




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Old 11-07-2008, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

They just look like cristi's and rio crosses to me.That is one reason I wont work with these that have came in as such which suck's because I want to.I have ample space just wish local's were more exact.But we may never truly know.
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

i got thease rio guarumos from mike alittle while ago and have seen allot of brancos of the same color. makes me glad i got a pair out of the trio, beautiful frogs.

male


female
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:19 AM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

Robb (or anyone else really),

Do your pumilio breeders or froglets get any UVB, or is dusting good enough? I'm feeling kinda guilty that I had to put plexiglass on top of the screen top because they turned the heat up a lot in the building lately and it has been drying that tank out, and the search for solacryl around NY is like a maze
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Robb (or anyone else really),

Do your pumilio breeders or froglets get any UVB, or is dusting good enough? I'm feeling kinda guilty that I had to put plexiglass on top of the screen top because they turned the heat up a lot in the building lately and it has been drying that tank out, and the search for solacryl around NY is like a maze
The only frogs that I have UVB on at the moment are blue jeans and histrionicus and their froglets. The branco group and their offspring do not have any UVB exposure. I can't say definitively whether or not it has had any effects but it certainly hasn't had any negative effect. I will say that the cb offspring with UVB have more red than the offspring I was getting prior to using UV. Could be coincidence though. There are plenty of people that don't use UV at all so I would not feel guilty. Just use a good vitamin powder and calcium with D3.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

OK cool thanks, I'm doing dendrocare and repcal 1:1, 2-3x a week but I'm always worried they're not getting enough flies before they rub the dust off, just trying to stack the deck as much as possible, but they're cayo de aguas so red or orange coloration isn't an issue
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmelancon View Post
This is my group of Rio Branco, 1 male and 3 females and the offspring they have produced so far. Interesting how the offspring apparently have taken on the main look of the females, not sure what this means if anything but i found it interesting.

(removed pictures to keep posting cleaner)

I suppose that female3 could be a parent but not sure. Initially I debated putting this one in the group but after looking at tons of pictures other than being obviously more red it is near identical to female2.

Thoughts and comments welcomed.
Just a thought on this. I was reading a paper written on D. Pumilio below are some quotes and a link.

Quote:
D. pumilio’s variability is not
explained by Mullerian mimicry, where natural selection
should favor convergence of color and pattern in unpalatable
species (Summers et al., 1997; Mallet and Joron, 1999).
Quote:
When individual D. pumilio
females were given a choice between frogs having different
color morphs, they preferentially chose their own type. Under
light conditions where frogs were unable to tell the difference
in color between the color morphs, they expressed no
preference. Thus, female D. pumilio use visual cues to assess possible mates. The relatively lengthy courtship behavior of
D. pumilio potentially gives a female ample opportunity to
observe and examine the coloration and patterning of a
possible mate (Limerick, 1980).
Interspecific and intraspecific views of color signals in the strawberry poison frog Dendrobates pumilio -- Siddiqi et al. 207 (14): 2471 -- Journal of Experimental Biology

The paper is a very interesting read. It may also explain IF your red female has not bred with your male, why.

I realize I have no personal experience with pumilio so I am just regurgitating information that others may not have read yet from my research I've been doing before getting PDF's.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwdragon View Post
Just a thought on this. I was reading a paper written on D. Pumilio below are some quotes and a link.





Interspecific and intraspecific views of color signals in the strawberry poison frog Dendrobates pumilio -- Siddiqi et al. 207 (14): 2471 -- Journal of Experimental Biology

The paper is a very interesting read. It may also explain IF your red female has not bred with your male, why.

I realize I have no personal experience with pumilio so I am just regurgitating information that others may not have read yet from my research I've been doing before getting PDF's.

I've seen and read that paper before when looking at pumilio morphs (golddust, orange, red, etc). It certainly seems relevant here although I just pulled a really red froglet the other day.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

It did say that this was only observed when there was a choice so it could be that she has no choice to pick a red mate.

It is definitely interesting and thought it fit in with the fact you mentioned that most of the froglets you pull look like Female 1 or 2.

Another thing I'm kind of interested in. I have noticed that the Rio Branco are kept in groups by a couple of people here. Now I do know that Male / Male agression is very strong in pumilio. However, I have also been told that while many pumilio can be kept in a larger enclosure as a trio, 1 male 2 females, that even the females can exhibit alot of agreesion towards the same sex.

Is this more true in certain morphs of pumilio? Are the Rio Branco better in a group larger than a trio than most other pumilios or is there still a good chance of having too much agression even in a large tank?

I think I read once that a single male pumilio can have a territory of 1 - 3 meters and will challenge other male pumilio that enter that area. So the idea of putting 2 male pumilios in anything smaller than a greenhouse is probably bad I'm guessing. However it has been mentioned to me that the females can be just as agressive.
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwdragon View Post
It did say that this was only observed when there was a choice so it could be that she has no choice to pick a red mate.

It is definitely interesting and thought it fit in with the fact you mentioned that most of the froglets you pull look like Female 1 or 2.

Another thing I'm kind of interested in. I have noticed that the Rio Branco are kept in groups by a couple of people here. Now I do know that Male / Male agression is very strong in pumilio. However, I have also been told that while many pumilio can be kept in a larger enclosure as a trio, 1 male 2 females, that even the females can exhibit alot of agreesion towards the same sex.

Is this more true in certain morphs of pumilio? Are the Rio Branco better in a group larger than a trio than most other pumilios or is there still a good chance of having too much agression even in a large tank?

I think I read once that a single male pumilio can have a territory of 1 - 3 meters and will challenge other male pumilio that enter that area. So the idea of putting 2 male pumilios in anything smaller than a greenhouse is probably bad I'm guessing. However it has been mentioned to me that the females can be just as agressive.
Ideally I like to keep everything 1.1 as there is no chance of unseen stress, aggression etc. As far as "big" tanks, it's always relative. My favorite saying is that a 300 gallon tank is small compared to your backyard, which is small compared to the rainforests. So I hesitate to say that these are doing "better" being in a group. There is so much that we cannot see when observing groups.

Not only is there male/male and female/female aggression, there is male/female aggression. Don't see it as much in my pumilio but some tincs the females really do a number on the males.
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Rio Branco Group and offspring

Sorry, I think that question was misunderstood.

From what I have been told and read most of the pumilios are best kept in pairs and some can be kept in trios but it is extremely advised to keep them in pairs because of the agression.

The question was if the Rio Branco seem to do better than other morphs of pumilio in this respect. Not if they do better in a group than a pair.
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwdragon View Post
Sorry, I think that question was misunderstood.

From what I have been told and read most of the pumilios are best kept in pairs and some can be kept in trios but it is extremely advised to keep them in pairs because of the agression.

The question was if the Rio Branco seem to do better than other morphs of pumilio in this respect. Not if they do better in a group than a pair.
The Rio Branco are the only pumilio I've ever tried in a group other than Blue Jeans of which I believe is 1.2

If I knew who was who in the blue jeans tank I would pull the extra animal but they keep producing so I'm not too concerned. With the rio branco it is 1.3 and they are producing well also.

My guess is that rio branco or any pumilio would do better in pairs given the same parameter of space, humidity, food etc. So to answer the question, no I don't think the rio branco do better than other morphs in groups.
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