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Old 09-04-2007, 02:50 PM
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Default Is everyone afraid to ship...

...or are there just enough customers for "local pickup"?

Honestly, at least two in three classifieds mention that shipping "is not available". What's up? Is it too much trouble or is everyone really that concerned about temps?

I live in Houston where it is HOT all the time. I ship and receive frogs during the summer without problems - I just make sure to use well insulated boxes and have the package left at a FedEx/Kinkos or PO for customer pickup.

By all means, each to his own, but are the decisions not to ship economically based, statistically based, or just "it's too much trouble" based?
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:21 PM
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If you can sell locally, why ship?

I'm sure if demand is low locally, you'll see them post wo/ any qualification on it.

I advertise availability locally (not on Dendroboard - but via private mailing list for the New England Frog Group) always before I advertise on DB. I'd rather not go through the hassle of shipping if possible.

Remember, the onus on shipping is on the shipper, not the shippee. So why take the chance if you don't need to?

s
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:54 PM
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In some cases its the rarity/ability of the frogs to handle stress, sometimes weather conditions, sometimes the comfort level of the shipper on shipping frogs (those with less experience for example).
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:55 PM
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Default Shipping

I agree the last 2 times I shipped were disastrous. The last time I did so I lost a proven pair of Fantasticus, a proven trio of Patricias, and a proven trio of Brazils, even with the company admitting they left it on a truck in 90 plus heat it was still my loss, and the customer on the other end must be taken care of. I for one will never risk it again. Then again I have people like Bill Heath(Indy), Melissa and Sarah(Columbus), Homer Faucett(Indy), and Pete Mertens(Chicago), you can't ask for a better list of sources then that.
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Is everyone afraid to ship...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod
Is it too much trouble or is everyone really that concerned about temps?
During the summer months - I prefer to have customer pick-up. Being concerned about the temps is a direct corollary to being concerned about the health of the frogs. I don't breed frogs to have them die in shipping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod
I live in Houston where it is HOT all the time. I ship and receive frogs during the summer without problems - I just make sure to use well insulated boxes and have the package left at a FedEx/Kinkos or PO for customer pickup.
There is always the chance of carrier error, and in a climate such as yours - those delays can be disastrous. Yes - hold for pickup is the way to do it, but it isn't always perfect. Something that also has to be considered is the type of frog in question. Some frogs are so delicate - that the mere stress of removing them from their enclosure can kill them - let alone shipping.

To be honest - I would much rather see vendors with the sense of mind to understand the limitations of shipping - and taking a cautious route, than numerous threads about dead frogs arriving in the mail.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:22 PM
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This seems to have gotten everyone awake this morning - as good as a couple shots of espresso! :shock:

Don't take my rant as an indication of lack of concern for the frogs. I have been fortunate to not have had any serious problems with shippers and thankful for healthy, happy frogs as a result (looking for wood to knock on...).

My question wasn't so much targetted at the peripheral reasons for not shipping (i.e. super delicate species, drop off in Anchorage for pickup in Death Valley, etc.), so much as it was an observation that more people don't just don't want to ship.

As Scott and Siples helped to illustrate, many times it is just more feasible and economical to sell locally. Not to mention much less of a hassle than dealing with shippers. With so few froggers in my area, shipping is the only realistic option for exchange, but if you live in a frogger "habitat" such as the NE, Midwest, or NW the local market is quite viable.

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Old 09-04-2007, 04:51 PM
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In my location, 19 times out of 20, I would have to ship (rural, to say the least).
As such, I have applied myself and come up with packaging that can safely transport animals to most locations during 9-10 months or more out of the year.
Local pickup is still better.
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:27 PM
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Out in the boonies, Brian? :?

Which concerns you more regarding shipping temperatures, hot or cold weather?

With the insulation products available today, I would think shipping disasters related to extreme tempertures would be rare; however, I don't have any data to back that up. For the unfortunate circumstances that have resulted in the loss of frogs during transit, I wonder just how many are directly attributeable to temperature as opposed to package mishandling, misplacement, etc.

Has anyone lost frogs during shipping due to something other than weather (that you can prove)?

Steven
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:42 PM
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Frogs have been run over (in their boxes), de-pressurized in flight, lost in transit (literally, the box DISAPPEARS) - these are the obvious ones.

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Old 09-04-2007, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod
Which concerns you more regarding shipping temperatures, hot or cold weather?

With the insulation products available today, I would think shipping disasters related to extreme tempertures would be rare; however, I don't have any data to back that up.
Steven
Heat worries me much more.
Closed vehicles act as a solar oven. In the winter, this works to our advantage, in the summer, it works against us.

Couple that with the fact that packages shipped via fedex ship through a hub in Memphis TN...where the temps were triple digits during the day most of the summer, and mid 80s at night.

Insulation is only part of the equation.
Take a nice, molded, 1.5 inch thick shipping cooler, with no buffer (heat sink/storage) and temps inside that box will reach ambient temps within one hour. (usually less than 40 minutes actually).
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Old 09-04-2007, 06:31 PM
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Yes, I imagine the heat is the worse of the two evils. The frogs can probably stand more temp. variation on the low end as well.

Your comments about the 1.5 inch styro cooler (without hot/cold packs) only lasting 40 minutes is a bit of a surprise. I thought the energy coefficients of styro were better than that. I'll have to entertain my curiousity tonight with a shipping box and max/min thermometer.

Aside from the materials science and frogs being crushed by delivery vans, what do we know about the conditions inside the trucks? I have stepped into a a couple of UPS trucks in the past, and didn't find them overly hot. At that time (about 10 years ago) they didn't have air conditioning (probably still don't) and the cargo area had skylights in the ceiling. I wonder how often the vans are loaded and left to bake in the sun. Do we know of anyone on DB that has every worked for one of the major shipping companies and can describe the typical day of a truck and driver?
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Old 09-04-2007, 06:44 PM
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I don't have the links on hand, but I have a few posts where we shipped a temp/time data logger in an uninsulated box to read what ambient temps our packages typically get exposed to.
A summary:
It seems like packages in cold weather are protected from the elements more than they are in the summer.
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Old 09-04-2007, 07:14 PM
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I remember reading those threads (an not being able to enlarge the chart for some reason). And, yes, your data along with gut instinct tells me that Anchorage deliveries are probably less detrimental than ones to Death Valley. 8)
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Old 09-04-2007, 07:23 PM
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I also know of several people who received frogs in the winter that were not packed too well, got cold, arrived unresponsive, and snapped right out of it within a few days.
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:59 PM
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Shipping can also be difficult for people who have not done it before or who do not ship alot. So selling locally is a easier option for everyone involved.
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