Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Dart Frogs > General Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise

Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

View Poll Results: Please see bold text on OP.
YES 57 64.77%
NO 31 35.23%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

Like Tree184Likes

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2014, 10:02 PM
JPccusa's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,752
Thanks: 224
Thanked 241 Times in 154 Posts
Default Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

One of the moderators' responsibilities here on Dendroboard is to read and approve items for sale. The rules are generally simple and straightforward. However, there has been concern about ads posted for events such as regional reptile shows. While Dendroboard is not directly affiliated with any of these shows, some of the vendors are members and/or sponsors of this forum.

Some members feel as though moderators should not allow advertisements if the seller is not a vendor of the show. On the other hand, others believe that if sales are going to happen via Dendroboard anyway, and both buyer and seller will be going to the show, there should not be a reason for moderators to stop a pre-arranged transaction from taking place.

We would like to "unmud" our policy, and we are reaching out to the community for input. Please answer yes or no, and feel free to leave us your comments.

The question is: Should the moderation team allow ads of people who are not paying vendors of a show if the show's name is mentioned in the ad?
__________________
JP
Moderator
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 12:08 AM
carola1155's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 4,978
Thanks: 141
Thanked 368 Times in 286 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Just a couple things...

This is an anonymous poll so if you want to keep your answer hidden that is fine... However, we do encourage everyone to please share their opinions in the thread here. We understand that the votes may end up getting skewed simply due to the fact there are more people here that aren't paying vendors at the shows than those that are.

We also understand that this may not be a total black and white situation. Sharing your views allows us to factor all the good talking points into our final decision.

Thank you in advance!
__________________
-Tom
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 01:36 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gloucester Twp, New Jersey
Posts: 2,367
Thanks: 4
Thanked 51 Times in 39 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

If I'm on the list to bring animals into the show under a different vendors name, why do I have to disclose this to dendroboard? I am bringing the animals into the shows with permission of the show organizers.


I'd like to know if any other forums feel they are the self appointed police of these shows? None that I go on but this one that I've noticed.

Last edited by mydumname; 06-18-2014 at 01:46 AM.
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 01:44 AM
ecichlid's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Palatine, IL
Posts: 808
Thanks: 72
Thanked 59 Times in 53 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

I think you would have a more definitive poll if you had the moderators who are in support of this actually write a proposed policy and then poll that.
waynowon likes this.
__________________
Everyone is welcome! Chicagoland Froggers
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 02:20 AM
Scott's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 8,548
Blog Entries: 6
Thanks: 108
Thanked 439 Times in 262 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Pretty sure your opinion would change if you bought a table, were a vendor, at more shows.

Why should THEY (the people who PAY for the show) support YOUR sales activities? Let them do the heavy lifting and you just float along and sell anyway?

I have no respect for that.

There ARE ways to do this without *advertising* to that effect.

s
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydumname View Post
If I'm on the list to bring animals into the show under a different vendors name, why do I have to disclose this to dendroboard? I am bringing the animals into the shows with permission of the show organizers.


I'd like to know if any other forums feel they are the self appointed police of these shows? None that I go on but this one that I've noticed.
billschwinn likes this.
__________________
Join the Southwest Frog Group FB Page!
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 02:34 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gloucester Twp, New Jersey
Posts: 2,367
Thanks: 4
Thanked 51 Times in 39 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

I attend and assist a vendor at the main show I go to and in turn put animals on the table. The other shows I have brought stuff to vendors and also arranged some other sales but just choose not to actually put additional animals on the table though I could.

I don't see why there is something wrong with that.


Feel free to pm me why you disrespect that so much. Many people don't actually get a table but use some space on others tables to help fill theirs if they are low on inventory or just because.

Also, I actually didn't vote or express my opinion as to whether I think it's right or wrong so not sure what opinion of mine you feel would change since I didn't even say mine.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 02:46 AM
Scott's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 8,548
Blog Entries: 6
Thanks: 108
Thanked 439 Times in 262 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

This is fine as they're paying for the privilege. It's been a common practice for a long time.

s
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydumname View Post
... Feel free to pm me why you disrespect that so much. Many people don't actually get a table but use some space on others tables to help fill theirs if they are low on inventory or just because.
__________________
Join the Southwest Frog Group FB Page!
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 02:50 AM
carola1155's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 4,978
Thanks: 141
Thanked 368 Times in 286 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
I think you would have a more definitive poll if you had the moderators who are in support of this actually write a proposed policy and then poll that.
I would think the wording would be something like:

"You cannot explicitly mention a show in a thread unless you are a registered vendor of that show".

Though the goal of this thread is kinda to hone that and see what people thought was appropriate.
__________________
-Tom
The Following User Says Thank You to carola1155 For This Useful Post:
ecichlid (06-18-2014)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 02:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gloucester Twp, New Jersey
Posts: 2,367
Thanks: 4
Thanked 51 Times in 39 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Yep. I don't get the initial reaction ....but moving on.
Hayden likes this.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:33 AM
jdooley195's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 981
Thanks: 36
Thanked 40 Times in 39 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

I have no problem with others posting parking lot classifieds for show dates that I am vending...

In some cases, a certain frog wont be available inside the expo...it doesn't seem fair to deprive someone from being alerted of that frogs availability to be there.

Also, I stand behind my frogs proudly for thousands to see at these expos, and have no doubt that if it were up to a buyer to meet someone in a parking lot, or walk through an expo and look at multiple vendors' frogs to choose from, the vendors would get the sale...and if not, it's probably a pricing issue, and I wouldn't want to and don't sell my frogs to hagglers anyway.

Let them post.
mydumname, waynowon and BrainBug like this.

Last edited by jdooley195; 06-18-2014 at 03:36 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to jdooley195 For This Useful Post:
waynowon (06-28-2014)
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:41 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,997
Thanks: 49
Thanked 49 Times in 42 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

From being a vendor I have sometimes spent hours packing and 100's of dollars to attend a show and not made enough to cover costs. I have seen people make more in one transaction than I did at the whole show when using my table as a meeting place. The shows and the vendors have to make money. They have sales tax license' to be able to vend at an event. I'm pretty sure Pa stopped people from having tables who didn't have a tax license, NY doesn't allow it. Some of these vendors drive hours to take a risk at attending a show. The reason it is a meeting place is because vendors are spending a lot of money to make it happen and taking a risk in the process. Seems quite unfair to me.
Why not ask a vendor to front the transaction. Offer a percent for being able to stand at their table and wait for a customer. Most places I was at had me give a list of people bringing animals into the show. I think they do that for a reason. Maybe so it doesn't turn into a meeting place and the vendors drop.
Do people grow veggies in their garden and advertise they'll be at the farmers market and then sell them in the parking lot?
Dane likes this.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 02:54 PM
JPccusa's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,752
Thanks: 224
Thanked 241 Times in 154 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Just so we have a more focused discussion, the issue on hand here is not whether selling at shows' "parking lot" is ethical or not. The issue here is whether it is the moderators' responsibility to block ads of such sales.
__________________
JP
Moderator
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:04 PM
mongo77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 1,017
Thanks: 28
Thanked 58 Times in 57 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

While I understand the point of view of the vendors, most of the people on this forum are here because this is their hobby and aren't in it to be rich. The shows offer a chance for hobbiest that may not live close to each other a chance to kill two birds with one stone, by allowing you to see and exchange frogs from a fellow hobbiest without paying shipping and attend the show. I suspect many of the people selling frogs outside of the shows are doing so that they will have the funds to purchase the supplies and animals from the vendors inside. Not every type of frog that you may want will be offered for sale by a vendor.
waynowon likes this.
__________________
Thanks, LARRY

" Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!" Ben Franklin
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:13 PM
mongo77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 1,017
Thanks: 28
Thanked 58 Times in 57 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPccusa View Post
Just so we have a more focused discussion, the issue on hand here is not whether selling at shows' "parking lot" is ethical or not. The issue here is whether it is the moderators' responsibility to block ads of such sales.
I guess when someone signs up to be a sponsor in this forum and the agreement for doing so is that they will have special privileges such as a special vendor section. If part of those special privileges is that non sponsors can't advertise sales at reptile shows then yes you should moderate the ads. If the mention of reptile shows was not in the agreement then you shouldn't moderate them. What do you guys do when a non sponsor buys a table and advertises here? Is it your job to contact the show and verify that such person has a table?
__________________
Thanks, LARRY

" Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!" Ben Franklin
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:19 PM
aspidites73's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 117
Thanked 161 Times in 135 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

If the Mod team's position is that the issue is not about being ethical, or not, You are suggesting that even if it is ethical, it shouldn't be allowed. In fact, by banning such ads, you are inferring a position of it being unethical. Aside from that, what you are essentially asking is: Should DB mods stand up for the show, or the hobbyist? Personally, I believe this to be overreaching of DB's hand. It is up to the show to police their policies. If they want to allow anyone to show up with animals, the vendors beef is with the the show organizers. If the show forbids it, and people do discrete "parking lot sales", that would be a failure of the shows policing.


EDIT: At what point does it become censorship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPccusa View Post
Just so we have a more focused discussion, the issue on hand here is not whether selling at shows' "parking lot" is ethical or not. The issue here is whether it is the moderators' responsibility to block ads of such sales.
__________________
Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss. ~R. W. Emerson

Last edited by aspidites73; 06-18-2014 at 03:22 PM.
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:19 PM
oddlot's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: south jersey
Posts: 3,341
Thanks: 16
Thanked 165 Times in 134 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Most of the time they are common frogs that most vendors have for sale.I've never seen a frog trying to be sold this way that was rare or something that the vendors won't have.If they want to sell them at the show,they should buy a table like the other vendors.If a vendor has a table and has space on their table for you that is different,but in my opinion if you don't have table space you should not sell frogs and undercut the vendors paying for the privilege to sell there animals.That's like going to Mcdonalds and having a guy selling burgers in the parkinglot for half price.It's just a lack of respect to your fellow froggers who've paid to do it and it's not fair to do to them.
billschwinn and ZookeeperDoug like this.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 3,933
Thanks: 43
Thanked 260 Times in 162 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Greg if you are doing labor for a vendor and your payment is putting animals on their table you are in essence paying for your right to put animals on their table. If you merely went in an said hey let me sell some animals on your table, I would agree that scenario is wrong and not fair to those supporting the show by buying tables and space.
I think if a member here is attending a show and buying a table they should be able to advertise it in the regional forum, if buying frogs locally or not paying to ship and adding that stress to the animals is an option people should be able to find out about it and see an ad stating it.
I do not believe however that a show should be allowed to advertise itself without being a sponsor, for certain reptiles shows to clog Regional Threads with announcements of their shows is not fair to the sponsors here, even if they are not direct competition to that vendor. If a member wants to tell everybody they are going to be at that show, fair game but if the show wants to announce it without sponsoring this site I say delete their ads. So my answer is if a show is a sponsor it should be protected, if not people should be able to pass frogs to each other in the parking lot and say so here.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:26 PM
JPccusa's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,752
Thanks: 224
Thanked 241 Times in 154 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo77 View Post
...What do you guys do when a non sponsor buys a table and advertises here?
That should fly without a glitch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo77 View Post
Is it your job to contact the show and verify that such person has a table?
It is not our job, but we usually know the shows' organizers and/or have access to the shows' official vendors list. Most of the time, we ask the person placing the "for sale" ad via PM.
__________________
JP
Moderator
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:27 PM
aspidites73's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 117
Thanked 161 Times in 135 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Suppose the vender wanted more diversity in their offerings, and requested someone bring them more frogs to sell?
__________________
Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss. ~R. W. Emerson
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:31 PM
mongo77's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 1,017
Thanks: 28
Thanked 58 Times in 57 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

I'm willing to bet that the vendors themselves have bought frogs from people at shows who did not have a table.
__________________
Thanks, LARRY

" Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!" Ben Franklin
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:33 PM
JPccusa's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,752
Thanks: 224
Thanked 241 Times in 154 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspidites73 View Post
Suppose the vender wanted more diversity in their offerings, and requested someone bring them more frogs to sell?
I don't see a problem with that as the vendor is the one assuming the responsibility of the final sales.
__________________
JP
Moderator
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:42 PM
carola1155's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 4,978
Thanks: 141
Thanked 368 Times in 286 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpulawski View Post
So my answer is if a show is a sponsor it should be protected, if not people should be able to pass frogs to each other in the parking lot and say so here.
From what I can gather... this debate has kinda originated from that position. With events like Microcosm and Frog Day being set up and organized largely in part by this hobby and members of this board, it became the norm to refuse outside ads for those events "out of respect for the vendors". My assumption is because the community as a whole understands that those vendor fees are going to a cause we all stand behind.

that's where this kinda comes into play:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aspidites73 View Post
what you are essentially asking is: Should DB mods stand up for the show, or the hobbyist? Personally, I believe this to be overreaching of DB's hand. It is up to the show to police their policies. If they want to allow anyone to show up with animals, the vendors beef is with the the show organizers. If the show forbids it, and people do discrete "parking lot sales", that would be a failure of the shows policing.
So, our debate behind the scenes has kind of evolved to the question of: should this rule be applied to all events, no matter their organizers? There are obvious ethical/moral questions behind this that we were unsure of the answers to... hence why we are asking.

Thank you everyone so far for your opinions/suggestions. Keep them coming!
__________________
-Tom
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 03:53 PM
ckays's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 177
Thanks: 12
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspidites73 View Post
If the Mod team's position is that the issue is not about being ethical, or not, You are suggesting that even if it is ethical, it shouldn't be allowed. In fact, by banning such ads, you are inferring a position of it being unethical. Aside from that, what you are essentially asking is: Should DB mods stand up for the show, or the hobbyist? Personally, I believe this to be overreaching of DB's hand. It is up to the show to police their policies. If they want to allow anyone to show up with animals, the vendors beef is with the the show organizers. If the show forbids it, and people do discrete "parking lot sales", that would be a failure of the shows policing.


EDIT: At what point does it become censorship?
I generally agree with this statement.

As someone that has worked a table at dozens and dozens of trade shows (completely non-frog related) I believe it is the facility's and event organizer's responsibility to police the event. DB does a service now by policing this behind the scenes it seems which is a great gesture imo, but does not need to be made policy.

You guys have to be busy enough as it is eh?
__________________
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:01 PM
JPccusa's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,752
Thanks: 224
Thanked 241 Times in 154 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckays View Post
DB does a service now by policing this behind the scenes it seems which is a great gesture imo, but does not need to be made policy.
Are you saying we should not allow such ads but still not make a policy that would support our actions? That would not help unmuddy the waters.
__________________
JP
Moderator
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:06 PM
aspidites73's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 117
Thanked 161 Times in 135 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPccusa View Post
Are you saying we should not allow such ads but still not make a policy that would support our actions? That would not help unmuddy the waters.
How will you police the difference between people asked to bring animals to a vendor, people who are friends of a vendor and with said vendor's approval, people who advertise I live in Hamburg (while the Hamburg show is going on), and people who are parking lot vendors?
__________________
Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss. ~R. W. Emerson
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:09 PM
aspidites73's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 117
Thanked 161 Times in 135 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddlot View Post
That's like going to Mcdonalds and having a guy selling burgers in the parkinglot for half price.It's just a lack of respect to your fellow froggers who've paid to do it and it's not fair to do to them.
While food is a different story, I can certainly meet someone in the parking lot of a pet store and sell them a frog.
__________________
Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss. ~R. W. Emerson
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:10 PM
Ed Ed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 19,312
Thanks: 321
Thanked 2,733 Times in 1,795 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddlot View Post
Most of the time they are common frogs that most vendors have for sale.I've never seen a frog trying to be sold this way that was rare or something that the vendors won't have.
I have on multiple occasions including at some events like the old IADs.

There are a couple of things missing from this discussion so far. For example, what are the rules put forth by the events? For example, at IADs, it was against the rules of the event to conduct sales in the parking lot or rooms or to sell or trade non-captive bred animals. Too often many of those people wouldn't even enter the show or pay to watch the lectures. So it's more than just depriving the vendors of income. It can also be a direct hit against the ability of the show to continue due to declining revenue. This was one of the problems that plagued IAD. Too little income made it difficult to keep the show solvent so those who just had to do the sales outside the vendor's room to save a couple of bucks can pat themselves on the back for adding some nails to IADs coffin.

If the rules of the event ban it, then it shouldn't be approved as it would be tacit approval of unethical behavior.

Secondly, the hobby really has nothing to complain about other than being inconvenienced if there is a ban on advertising what people are taking to some regional events. They can simply post it in the regular classified section for free and state that no shipping at that time.

Third, bringing animals for a vendor at a show is not the same as bringing animals for a person to do a parking lot sale. This is because the vendor has paid for a table and it's really a non-issue as based from this topic of conversation.

I see no problems banning advertising in the regional sections for people not vending at shows.

Some comments

Ed
JJuchems and ZookeeperDoug like this.
__________________
A phrase you never want to hear;
"It seemed like a good idea at the time."
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:15 PM
Ed Ed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 19,312
Thanks: 321
Thanked 2,733 Times in 1,795 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

As a further point to this discussion..

People should consider that these parking lot transactions are having the same impact on a vendor as the company that started out as Dart Frog Warehouse. Your undercutting a vendor and hitting them where it is important right in the pocket because your taking advantage of having reduced overhead costs because you're not paying for a table.
I find it discouraging, that the hobby can take a stand against something like DFW as long as it isn't in their interest but the moment they can make a few dollars, they don't mind doing what in essence is the exact same thing.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, support the sponsors and vendors at shows. If you want to help keep DFW from redefining the dart frog hobby sell to a vendor at a table at a cost to put the squeeze on DFW.

Some comments

Ed
__________________
A phrase you never want to hear;
"It seemed like a good idea at the time."
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ed For This Useful Post:
billschwinn (06-20-2014), Dane (06-18-2014), ZookeeperDoug (06-19-2014)
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:15 PM
JPccusa's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,752
Thanks: 224
Thanked 241 Times in 154 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspidites73 View Post
How will you police the difference between people asked to bring animals to a vendor, people who are friends of a vendor and with said vendor's approval, people who advertise I live in Hamburg (while the Hamburg show is going on), and people who are parking lot vendors?
This is about the ads, not about the actual show. I'm not sure I understand your different scenarios.

In our eyes, either you are a vendor or you are not. All the behind the scenes talks and whose frogs are being sold at the tables are not of our concern.
__________________
JP
Moderator
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,997
Thanks: 49
Thanked 49 Times in 42 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Neither are the vendors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo77 View Post
While I understand the point of view of the vendors, most of the people on this forum are here because this is their hobby and aren't in it to be rich. The shows offer a chance for hobbiest that may not live close to each other a chance to kill two birds with one stone, by allowing you to see and exchange frogs from a fellow hobbiest without paying shipping and attend the show. I suspect many of the people selling frogs outside of the shows are doing so that they will have the funds to purchase the supplies and animals from the vendors inside. Not every type of frog that you may want will be offered for sale by a vendor.
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:22 PM
JPccusa's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,752
Thanks: 224
Thanked 241 Times in 154 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed View Post
...What are the rules put forth by the events?
...If the rules of the event ban it, then it shouldn't be approved as it would be tacit approval of unethical behavior.
Is it Dendroboard's job to know the different events' rules and enforce them?
__________________
JP
Moderator
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:25 PM
carola1155's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 4,978
Thanks: 141
Thanked 368 Times in 286 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

One of the other points that has been brought up in the past is the "intent" of the ad.

Some people said:

"if the intention of the ad is to sell frogs no matter what, whether it is meeting up locally/at someone's house or shipping... it shouldn't be an issue if the person mentions they are going to be attending a local show, so long as they are not advertising as though they are a vendor"

This would differ from the person that has a bunch of frogs they are sitting on and just decides "Well, xyz show is coming up, better post an ad and see if I can sell some" while not actually being interested in the effort required to sell them otherwise.
thedude, mongo77 and BrainBug like this.
__________________
-Tom
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:29 PM
aspidites73's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 117
Thanked 161 Times in 135 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

There is a distinct difference between cutting vendor prices and selling animals in the parking lot. There are people here who greatly undercut prices. Are we to ban them, too? Why not? they're having the same effect. I do agree with Ed that the regionals is no place to advertise frogs for sale. That's what the classifieds are for. Regionals should be for show/meeting/event promotions, not individual frog sales.
__________________
Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss. ~R. W. Emerson
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:33 PM
carola1155's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 4,978
Thanks: 141
Thanked 368 Times in 286 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Ads are permitted in the regional sections for shows:

Quote:
Informational classifieds are permitted in the "Regional Group & Event Announcements" section as long as they are posted in relation to a meeting or show. Classifieds posted as standalone threads or posted in a unrelated thread in this section will be removed.
(User Agreement)

Generally, these are the "Hey I'm a vendor at this show and I have these frogs for sale" kind of ads. These are "unmoderated" in that they don't need approval and are not subject to the typical requirements of a 'Marketplace' ad.
__________________
-Tom
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:35 PM
aspidites73's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 117
Thanked 161 Times in 135 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPccusa View Post
This is about the ads, not about the actual show. I'm not sure I understand your different scenarios.

In our eyes, either you are a vendor or you are not. All the behind the scenes talks and whose frogs are being sold at the tables are not of our concern.

Your saying there is a problem with people posting ads saying they are a vendor, when they aren't? If I live in/around Hamburg, and advertise my frogs during the Hamburg event, this is wrong simply because i'm not a vendor?
__________________
Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss. ~R. W. Emerson
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:36 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,997
Thanks: 49
Thanked 49 Times in 42 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

I'm pretty sure they all require a tax license now. How many hobbyists have a tax license for their own state alone traveling to shows? And every show I've been to requires a vendor to be able to bring animals into the show and I don't remember any that allowed open sales in the parking lot. Dig around they may all be the same.

If it wants to be ethical it wouldn't allow open advertising knowing the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPccusa View Post
Is it Dendroboard's job to know the different events' rules and enforce them?
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:37 PM
aspidites73's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 117
Thanked 161 Times in 135 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

I see your point, and agree. Non vendors should not be able to post in regional sections. If in the non vendor classifieds section I see no harm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carola1155 View Post
Ads are permitted in the regional sections for shows:


(User Agreement)

Generally, these are the "Hey I'm a vendor at this show and I have these frogs for sale" kind of ads. These are "unmoderated" in that they don't need approval and are not subject to the typical requirements of a 'Marketplace' ad.
__________________
Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss. ~R. W. Emerson
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:42 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 114
Thanks: 50
Thanked 20 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Going to shows and seeing frogs on tables is what gets new blood into the hobby. Being able to get good advice from the people at those tables is what keeps the frogs alive in the hands of those new hobbyists. That should be protected - people selling in the parking lot have an element of parasitism and are taking advantage of the crowds brought by the people who actually pay to set up a table. It may be convenient but it certainly isn't a "right". Either buy a table, have an arrangement with someone at a table (in which case saying you'll be at the show e should be fine), or state that you're only selling locally and set up the where of it behind the scenes.
__________________
Ralph
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:43 PM
carola1155's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 4,978
Thanks: 141
Thanked 368 Times in 286 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspidites73 View Post
I see your point, and agree. Non vendors should not be able to post in regional sections. JP's questions specified classifieds ads. If in the non vendor classifieds section I see no harm.

The grey area is... what if someone chimes in on an existing show thread and says something like "hey I need a male standard imitator" ?

Or if someone starts a thread asking "who is going to be at this show? I'm looking for some terribilis". That could be geared towards vendors but they may get responses from non-vendors. (privately or publicly)

It is tough to draw lines there... (I'm just offering food for thought on all this)
__________________
-Tom
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2014, 04:43 PM
JPccusa's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,752
Thanks: 224
Thanked 241 Times in 154 Posts
Default Re: Feedback Poll - Show Sales: Table vs. Meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspidites73 View Post
Your saying there is a problem with people posting ads saying they are a vendor, when they aren't? If I live in/around Hamburg, and advertise my frogs during the Hamburg event, this is wrong simply because i'm not a vendor?
No. The problem is when people say "I'll be at the show" while not having a table at said show.
If you live in Hamburg/nearby the show and do not mention the show by name in your ad, it would be approved without a problem.
ZookeeperDoug likes this.
__________________
JP
Moderator
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Central Jersey dendro meeting/show Jason DeSantis NorthEast 219 09-29-2009 05:02 PM
Raleigh Reptile Show/ Group Meeting rcteem SouthEast 12 09-09-2009 05:51 AM
Raleigh Reptile Expo Meeting POLL! Saturday or Sunday? slipperheads SouthEast 1 04-16-2008 01:16 AM
New England meeting sales or trades? *GREASER* The Lounge 2 11-13-2004 09:35 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.