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Old 03-10-2014, 04:20 PM
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Default Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

This thread is being created as a companion to the original
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:30 PM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Well, I don't like the closing nor do I feel this is an appropriate forum, but I suppose it is good to have some kind of discussion.

In my phone conversation with Rick, he knocked Repashy and then said that they (DFW) will be coming out with their own supplement.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:57 PM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertaHerp View Post
In my phone conversation with Rick, he knocked Repashy and then said that they (DFW) will be coming out with their own supplement.
Interesting.

Would anyone actually trust them to even know what needs to be in a proper supplement.

On the one hand you have Allen Repashy with years of experience creating supplements and foods for countless species, not just dart frogs. He has actually done the research to know the requirements for each species. He is trusted by hobbyists, zoos, aquariums, and researchers around the world.

On the other hand, you have the Wascher's, self proclaimed scientists who have demonstrated a fundamental lack of understanding of proper supplementation and it's proper use. Let's recall that they don't know why you don't reuse the limited waste left over after using a supplement, nor do they know how to properly use supplements so that too much waste is not generated. Does anyone actually think they will use quality ingredients? In the proper proportions? Will properly labels, store, cycle a vitamin supplement. Irrelevant to us really, as nobody here would buy it, but it could harm the people they do sell to.

What they'll probably do is pay someone else to fill bottles for them with an established product and rebrand it with their logos, claim it is something special, and refuse to release what is actually in it. They'll claim they're protecting their intellectual property or some other garbage.

Now here is the fun part for Rick, when he catches up. This is something I know something about, because I delt with specifically importing products without labels that conform to US regulations(importing products from Japan and Europe for aquarium use, food, water additives, etc.) It is impossible, they don't care, you will have to print what is in the label on the bottle. If and or when you do this, know that I know exactly who to report you to if your products are not labeled correctly. This goes to the safety of children who you admit are your target clients who could be adversely effected if they ingest an improperly labeled product.
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Old 03-10-2014, 05:20 PM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

I'd also like to call on our Tennessee members to go to the show the Waschers are attending Vendors - Nashville Exotic Pet Expo April 12-13, 2014
October 11-12, 2014
Tennessee State Fairgrounds
Saturday from 9 am till 4 pm
Sunday from 9 am till 3 pm
Admission $5

You guys should stand at their table, steer away all interested persons, direct them here, to the thread as well, so they can buy QUALITY dart frogs from reputable people. And take pics/videos of their stuff, pepper them with questions and for god sakes talk to poor Dillon. Let's see if he really has that genius head on his shoulders. Maybe he can turn out to be a hobbyiest for the better. Time we fought back, and that has to start with Rick. I wish I could hop on a plane and cause my own stink.
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Old 03-10-2014, 05:58 PM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertaHerp View Post
I'd also like to call on our Tennessee members to go to the show the Waschers are attending Vendors - Nashville Exotic Pet Expo April 12-13, 2014
October 11-12, 2014
Tennessee State Fairgrounds
Saturday from 9 am till 4 pm
Sunday from 9 am till 3 pm
Admission $5

You guys should stand at their table, steer away all interested persons, direct them here, to the thread as well, so they can buy QUALITY dart frogs from reputable people. And take pics/videos of their stuff, pepper them with questions and for god sakes talk to poor Dillon. Let's see if he really has that genius head on his shoulders. Maybe he can turn out to be a hobbyiest for the better. Time we fought back, and that has to start with Rick. I wish I could hop on a plane and cause my own stink.
That would be funny to have 20 froggers chip in on a table and bring their inventories and charge $1 less than DFW on everything while handing out informational sheets.

Doug - Yeah they are opening a can of worms for sure with their own supplements. I took an animal nutrition class a couple of semesters ago and we went into detail for maybe a week about all of the guidelines that have to be followed. There are so many hoops to jump through, I'm sure 1 or 2 will be missed. The justifications for why their supplements will dominate Allen Repashy's will be an interesting read. Since they are mixing experts, they will probably just mix the pink jar with the blue jar and call it the Cal-RepTM.
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:42 PM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

As an example on the issue of waste. USDARTfrog claims the repashy products have too much waste.

No, they don't. USDARTfrog creates too much waste when using their products because they don't know how to use them properly.

This picture shows the amount of waste I had left over this morning feeding out 18 vivariums and 22 growout containers. This is the combines waste from three types of flies, hydei, Turkish gliders, and wingless Melos. 67 collection frogs, and approximately 100 froglets. No where near the thousands of frogs they CLAIM to be raising, but a tiny amount of waste. Even if you were to extrapolate this to the amount of frogs USDARTfrog allegedly raises, it would still be a tiny insignificant amount.

And yes, I'll be throwing this out because unlike USDARTfrog, I don't have an unrealistic and uninformed expectation of reusability because I understand WHY this supplement, and any other supplement should NEVER be reused after this. Wanting to be able to reuse the left over Shake is just being lazy and cheep.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:38 AM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Quote:
Originally Posted by InvertaHerp View Post
Well, I don't like the closing nor do I feel this is an appropriate forum, but I suppose it is good to have some kind of discussion.

In my phone conversation with Rick, he knocked Repashy and then said that they (DFW) will be coming out with their own supplement.
LoL... ok ya sure, can't wait to see them try that. I hope they try. The time/expense it will cost to take on Repashy and then fail will put them out of business faster.

At least Repashy can show up to a forum and talk to people in the hobby without starting world war 3.
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Old 03-11-2014, 02:20 PM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

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Originally Posted by Dendro Dave View Post
LoL... ok ya sure, can't wait to see them try that. I hope they try. The time/expense it will cost to take on Repashy and then fail will put them out of business faster.

At least Repashy can show up to a forum and talk to people in the hobby without starting world war 3.
Not to mention that Allen Repashy WELCOMES the opportunity to discuss his formulas with real scientists.
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Old 03-11-2014, 03:37 PM
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Not to mention that Allen Repashy WELCOMES the opportunity to discuss his formulas with real scientists.
I am so glad that there are quality people in this hobby. because there is no question in my mind that whatever DFW comes up with it will be trademarked, and held as a "trade secret". there is no chance you will ever get them to discuss what is in the stuff.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:40 PM
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I am so glad that there are quality people in this hobby. because there is no question in my mind that whatever DFW comes up with it will be trademarked, and held as a "trade secret". there is no chance you will ever get them to discuss what is in the stuff.
If they're going to package it and sell it, especially as a suppliment for feeding an animal, they will have to disclose the ingredients. This is a federal law. As I mentioned previously, I worked for a company that was importing aquarium products, foods, supplements etc, from Japan. They could not be sold without proper labeling. We eventually had to have labels that conformed to US regulations printed to be placed on the bottles.

For example, even Dendrocare which is imported from Europe is properly labeled.

Not that I think anyone would use a vitamin suppliment if the vendor refused to disclose the contents. You're just supposed to trust them? I think not.
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:46 PM
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Not to mention that Allen Repashy WELCOMES the opportunity to discuss his formulas with real scientists.
Not only that, but he often gives free samples for hobbyists to test, then welcomes our feedback in order to refine his products. And Rick has the nerve to accuse Repashy of having paid advocates. NEWSFLASH Rick, were all advocates because they're quality products and Repashy is a standup honest company that helps the hobby unlike USDARTfrog. We know that you resort to libel and disparage a quality product to make yourself sound educated and important, when in reality you further expose yourself and your business as a fraud.

You couldn't pay me to test USDARTfrog products.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:05 PM
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Someone in the previous thread suggested that the reason why USDARTfrog may advertise these frogs as "NO" poison dart frogs is because of the Tennessee state law prohibiting Poisonous Amphibians.

I took it upon myself to inquire with one of the wildlife officials there and can say that this is NOT the case. Dart frogs ARE legal except in a couple cases.

Tennessee is only concerned with Phyllobates terribilis and wild caught frogs. Frogs that are captive bred are completely legal and are of no concern. Why P. terribilis, because of the paper that showed they're still capable of producing some alkaloids, and even then they said they were only really recommending against that species. It was mentioned that long term captives of wild caught origin were probably ok since they loose their toxicity. The defining issue is that the animals have to actually be capable of being injurious to humans. Poisonous must actually define their current state, and since CB frogs are not poisonous they are not subject to the provisions of the law.

Interestingly enough since my wife recently received an interview request for a surgical job in Tennessee, it gave me an opportunity to inquire about the legality of my collection if we move do there.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:31 PM
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More laughs from the Wascher comedy ... (science) ... team:

Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrog.com website
Newly Purchased
The information in this category will expand over time.


" ...how long do you suggest sweater boxing [bin enclosure] them? I've heard different stories based on age, so I wanted to see your thoughts since they are your frogs. I have a 15 gallon vivarium I was going to use, and I am working on getting springtails for a food source (and fruit flies)."

In the Viv they go! We raise our frogs in groups and the groups get slimmed down to the 2 pair population as they get older. Sure we start in the bin/sweater box but at 3 months our frogs are very large. (That no methylparaben drum we beat on is real.)

With that said, the age is really not the issue, it is size and can they hunt. If they are of a size to athletically move about, hop, and navigate a space then by all means give them the room to roam. A lot of frog sellers ship tiny, fragile frogs, presumably because they would rather make money than care for frogs and that says a lot to us. We care first, then sell! If they tell you to put them in a Sterilite bin or other small enclosure, consider not buying because they are so small and young. Each and every frog we sell can hop, move about easily and hunt. They are ready for a vivarium.

In their new vivarium, it is best to use a feeding station area to start so they can find the "spot" and dine there without much difficulty. You may need to coax them to the feeding area, but I doubt it. They know what that (a feeding station) is because that is what we do here before you get the frogs. They should already be trained to eat at a feeding station, just not familiar with the new digs and where the dining area is located. Of course as flies disperse they get very good at surrounding them, and exercise on their hunts.

Later, when they see you open the lid/door they will come to you. If you put a few flies on your hand and introduce your hand first they will eventually hop into your hand and feed. Then, they will simply hop into your hand. We do it here with our breeders. They seem to like it, because right after, they get fed ...Pavlovian I guess.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:46 PM
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Actually encouraging a keeper to pour flies on their hand, then stick the hand into an enclosure in the hopes of having the frogs crawl directly onto them...just a baffling recommendation!
Anyone want to wager a guess as to how soon one of their customers follows their suggestion and becomes seriously ill with Salmonella, Chlamydia, or any number of other potential diseases that amphibians can transmit?
You would think that a family that claims to have a legal background would be a little more concerned about being the target of a lawsuit. Additionally, it really seems like they are marketing to children, which makes this all the more dangerous.

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Old 03-15-2014, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardsatc View Post
More laughs from the Wascher comedy ... (science) ... team:
Yep take their "word" for it and throw them into a viv.... not to mention "hand feed them."
No QT, age has nothing to do with QT. Duh!
Next they will sell frog collars and leashes on their site...
Their claims etc. Remind me of South Park.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:57 AM
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Yep take their "word" for it and throw them into a viv.... not to mention "hand feed them."
No QT, age has nothing to do with QT. Duh!
Next they will sell frog collars and leashes on their site...
Their claims etc. Remind me of South Park.
Don't forget sweaters... Amphibians are cold blooded so on those cold days they'll appreciate that you cared enough to get them an official DFW turtleneck
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:06 PM
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Not trying to change the subject but are they really starting to hybridize? I'm not sure if I'm clear on what they are doing with designer frogs. And eating out of the hand is both dangerous to the frog and human...not everyone is meticulous about washing hands and could transmit pathogens to frogs, not to mention the other way around. Not a smart move.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:27 PM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post
Actually encouraging a keeper to pour flies on their hand, then stick the hand into an enclosure in the hopes of having the frogs crawl directly onto them...just a baffling recommendation!
Anyone want to wager a guess as to how soon one of their customers follows their suggestion and becomes seriously ill with Salmonella, Chlamydia, or any number of other potential diseases that amphibians can transmit?
You would think that a family that claims to have a legal background would be a little more concerned about being the target of a lawsuit. Additionally, it really seems like they are marketing to children, which makes this all the more dangerous.
Not to mention the fact that the frogs could catch illness from oils and other nasties on the keepers skin.

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Old 03-15-2014, 07:17 PM
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Not to mention the fact that the frogs could catch illness from oils and other nasties on the keepers skin.
I thought about that too, but we are already aware of their lack of concern for the animals. I was hoping that the danger of sickening their customers and facing legal repercussions might make them pull that part of the site.

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Old 03-16-2014, 03:38 AM
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I thought about that too, but we are already aware of their lack of concern for the animals. I was hoping that the danger of sickening their customers and facing legal repercussions might make them pull that part of the site.
as non-members, can they even see this conversation now that it is in the lounge? I feel really sad for the kid whose entire life is screwed over from catching salmonella from these people's bad advice. if there was something i could do to stop that, i would.
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Old 03-16-2014, 05:33 AM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

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as non-members, can they even see this conversation now that it is in the lounge?
It can be seen by anyone. That is why it is in the lounge. They wouldn't be able to see it in the thunderdome (where most people suggested it should go)

Anyone can see it here. That was intentional. Not necessarily for them... But for other people that may be looking for information about them. There is a bit of thought behind the things we do every once in a while
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:05 AM
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It can be seen by anyone. That is why it is in the lounge. They wouldn't be able to see it in the thunderdome (where most people suggested it should go)

Anyone can see it here. That was intentional. Not necessarily for them... But for other people that may be looking for information about them.
Don't forget to add tags to the thread to make it easier for people to find the information they are searching for.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrogs.com website

Level I Dart Frogs
Captive Bred
SAFE® no poison dart frog varieties that are:
(1.) known to exist in the wild,
(2.) imported into the United States of America,
(3.) captive bred as pets from same variety parents, and
(4.) the offspring is "True" or "Pure" offspring, i.e., the same variety as both parents.

I think we all know what Level II is going to be ...
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:15 PM
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I think we all know what Level II is going to be ...
They could save themselves some typing and simplify things by just phrasing it like this...

Step 1. Piss everyone off.

Step 2. REALLY piss everyone off.

Step 3. ...Fail, and go out of business.

Or the even shorter version...

1. Fail.
2. Fail..
3 Fail... and go out of business.

Oh and DFW/usdartwhatchamacall yourselves these days... Feel free to copy paste and trademark the above statements
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:15 PM
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Dear Ricky,

Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrogs.com website"
Their mixed offspring reproduce easily and naturally to create a next generation offspring. In fact, fertile first clutches from pairs of wild caught replacements (i.e., mature offspring of same species, dissimilar variety parents) are the norm, 100% of the time, so far. Stated another way for complete clarity, the first generation offspring (F1) of a proven pair of same species (tinctorius), but dissimilar parents in the context of variety, are themselves most definitely capable of breeding and producing 2nd generation offspring of their kind. This fact has always been disputed, but we have proven the answer with applied science that now debunks the theoretical. Mixed tinctorius in the context of variety are NOT hybrids
1) Wrong! You've manufactured this controversy to support your mixed morph frogs. The fact that populations (morphs,varieties, locales) of the same species can successfully produce fertile offspring has never been disputed by hobbyists and most certainly not by scientists. Either you still don't understand population biology and genetics or you choose to ignore the science in lieu of profits.

2) The fact that they can successfully produce fertile offspring does not mean that future generations will breed true to the traits of the resultant F1 offspring. Subsequent generations are usually quite variable and I suspect you will soon find this out ... or your unsuspecting customers will find out and probably be quite unhappy. Again, a total lack of understanding of population biology and genetics.

3) Your "applied science" has not debunked anything since there was nothing theoretical to the contrary. Additionally, you've never supplied any results or data to support the many claims you've made under the name of science. Those of us who are real scientists (not the kind that claim to be based on a definition from Websters) share our results and data ... this is how science advances. Your "science" is in fact "pseudoscience" ... if one is to actually believe that you're actually conducting any experimentation (which I do not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrogs.com website"
Any use of the non-scientific term hybrid would apply to "hybrid vigor." Hybrid Vigor is a natural phenomenon whereby the offspring of same species mixed variety animal offspring are more hardy and in many, many,ways considered genetically superior and "better" than either parents.
1) The term hybrid most certainly has a scientific definition.

2) Hybrid vigor (heterosis) does not occur with all hybrids or even the majority of hybrids. In fact, negative heterosis (less fit individuals) is also a likely outcome.

3) Had you done even the slightest amount of research on the topic, you would have found that the term DOES NOT imply "genetic superiority". This is made very clear in all of the literature. Even your favorite source, Wikipedia, makes this crystal clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrogs.com website"
Thus to say the offspring of mixed varietal tinctorius are weak, sickly, abnormal, ort anything deragatory is balderdash. Web will help (re)define F1 and F2 in the context of captive bred frogs in the coming months.
1) What's "balderdash" is all the crap that you spew on your website in order to dupe potential customers.

2) Again, a controversy that never existed ... until you created it in another attempt to justify and profit from mixed morph frogs.

3) You won't redefine F1 or F2, but you will reinforce the term "mutt".

If your goal is to produce and sell mixed morph frogs, grow some balls and just say so rather than creating controversy that never existed, inflating your experience and credentials, and totally misrepresenting the science to support your agenda.

Stop hiding behind your kids and your pseudoscience and man up!
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:50 PM
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As an instructor, there are a couple of little things that irritate me. Here is one of them. Rick likes to show the "proved" all of this stuff through science (no matter how deficient). Science as a general rule does not "prove" anything. Otherwise, you would have idiots running around saying they are changing the world with poor ideas.

The other thing is how the man in the yellow hat always refers to Curious George as a monkey. CLEARLY, he is an ape.

My two cents.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:33 AM
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"The good ones"?

Kingsnake.com Classifieds: CB Auratus Microspot 6-8 mos. old, very large, TWO (2) Frog Group $66.95, pure microspot!

Stay tuned for "The bad ones" and "The ugly ones"

Donn, you are right. Rick has obviously had zero education in this area. I guess he didn't make it to the part about independent assortment on Yahoo answers yet. Or a bell shaped curve.

Rick - If your frogs are all "superior" as you claim, how do you test and measure that? Do you expose all of your frogs to harsh conditions, disease, and excess stress to determine which ones are genetically superior? What % of the offspring do you cull that do not meet your high standards? Please enlighten me. I know you aren't going to respond because of what type of a person you are. But the ONLY credible quote that comes from you, also describes yourself spot on, perfectly...

"Sometimes scientists are to weak to rest on something they cannot explain, so they make stuff up." <---Rick Wascher this is you.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by grendel88 View Post
As an instructor, there are a couple of little things that irritate me. Here is one of them. Rick likes to show the "proved" all of this stuff through science (no matter how deficient). Science as a general rule does not "prove" anything. Otherwise, you would have idiots running around saying they are changing the world with poor ideas.
Yep and the use of the term "prove" is a strong indicator that there isn't even a rudimentary understanding of the scientific method.

Even more amusing is this dandy:

Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrogs.com website
While our work continues, we have reproved Lotters, et al., in the area of captive bred dart frogs and frog breeding.
Reprove? Now that's funny. It's especially amusing considering that the Lotters et al. neither attempt to address any hypothesis nor "prove" anything. It is simply a review of existing literature and husbandry practices. One day Rick may actually read all the way to the end and find that little section we fondly refer to as "Literature Cited" and eventually find his way to the primary sources. Of course he wouldn't want to do that because then he would find that his assumptions and interpretations are flawed.

It's difficult to tell whether this bozo is truly this ignorant of basic scientific and biological principles or whether he is intentionally misrepresenting the science in order to promote his own agenda. I suspect it's a combination of both ...
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:45 AM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

[QUOTE=edwardsatc;1858562]


Reprove? Now that's funny. It's especially amusing considering that the Lotters et al. neither attempt to address any hypothesis nor "prove" anything. It is simply a review of existing literature and husbandry practices. One day Rick may actually read all the way to the end and find that little section we fondly refer to as "Literature Cited" and eventually find his way to the primary sources. Of course he wouldn't want to do that because then he would find that his assumptions and interpretations are flawed.

[QUOTE=edwardsatc;1858562]


This "reprove" idea really annoys me. The Waschers make it seem as if they are a group of respected scientists and that there are people whom care what they think. This reminds me The Three Amigos. They are more than famous. They are IN-famous!

Lol
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrogs.com website
Their mixed offspring reproduce easily and naturally to create a next generation offspring. In fact, fertile first clutches from pairs of wild caught replacements (i.e., mature offspring of same species, dissimilar variety parents) are the norm, 100% of the time, so far. Stated another way for complete clarity, the first generation offspring (F1) of a proven pair of same species (tinctorius), but dissimilar parents in the context of variety, are themselves most definitely capable of breeding and producing 2nd generation offspring of their kind. This fact has always been disputed, but we have proven the answer with applied science that now debunks the theoretical. Mixed tinctorius in the context of variety are NOT hybrids. Any use of the non-scientific term hybrid would apply to "hybrid vigor." Hybrid Vigor, heterosis, and "out breeding" mean the same thing, and is a natural phenomenon whereby the offspring of same species mixed variety animal offspring are more hardy and in many, many, ways considered genetically superior and "better" than either parents. This is not always the case in the animal kingdom, but it with these frogs in the wild and captive bred as we do. Thus, to say the offspring of mixed varietal tinctorius are weak, sickly, abnormal, or anything derogatory is balderdash.
Nice try at some corrections Ricky, but still ignorant of population biology and genetics, appears to be intentionally misleading, and "balderdash" (as you would call it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrogs.com website
We will help (re)define F1 and F2 in the context of captive bred frogs in the coming months.The dart frog hobby supports outbreeding and because we have shown the tinctorius is indeed a polymorphic species and breeding different varieties does indeed produce the benefits of outbreeding, we expect the hobby will, over time, embrace the ecology and conservation of captive bred frogs and the practice will blossom, and a new hobby will emerge.
1) You may "expect" that outcome, but I think that thousands of negative responses on multiple forums tells another story ...

2) You did not show that D.tinctorius is polymorphic nor have you "reproven" it. Polymorphism in the species has has been noted for decades by many established and reputable scientists and was well established long before you laid eyes on your first dart frog. (Additionally, in order for you to show anything requires data and statistically significant results. Neither have been produced by you.)

3) As I said previously, you will not (and cannot) redefine filial generations. You will only reinforce the term "mutt".
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrogs.com website
Which two frogs from the same region in the wild do you think mated to yield the VillaNova, True Sip, and/or BLUE FROST above? Feel free to use our BLUE FROST picture (above), Lotters et al. chart below, and the Morphguide from Tinctoroius.ch as a guide. We know by phenotype mapping, but unfortunately, because our breeding programs are so highly confidential and will remain so, we will not disclose the parental combination(s) of our BlueFrost to anyone other than our FrogDudes™, a breeding program to be defined later. We hope you understand, but again, we will never offer for sale, sell, or in any way distribute any frog as a wild caught version, common dart frog, classic, true morph or "pure" frog offspring from same species dissimilar parents as a wild caught replacement, or anything of any kind...etc., without being absolutely up front and transparent as to what it is, or is not.
For those following this ridiculousness, FrogDude.com is another domain that Rick has purchased. Probably another attempt to put some distance between his mutt frogs and the forum threads.

Domain Name: FROGDUDE.COM
Registrar URL: Domain Names | The World's Largest Domain Name Registrar - GoDaddy
Registrant Name: Rick Wascher
Registrant Organization:
Name Server: NS09.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS10.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardsatc View Post
1) You may "expect" that outcome, but I think that thousands of negative responses on multiple forums tells another story ...
I think Donn has a key point here... The only thing revolutionary happening here is that no one has been this willing to piss off this many people so completely in the hopes of... well what? ...Differentiating themselves from the competition

Well congratulations DFW/frogdude etc..etc.., you've succeeded. The arrogance it takes to sit there and still think you're completely right and justified in your practices despite the outrage is just mind boggling ...Now please go back to forcing your way of thinking and doing things onto an entire hobby community all for the sake of lining your pocket book. At this point is is almost entertaining, in a pathetic way like watching someone who is a true jerk get shot down by girl after girl at a bar.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:13 PM
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And then there's Rick's "Science" page:

Science - Expert Understanding

Wow, that's a lot of ignorance piled in one heap. So rather than debunking this mountain of bullshit piece by piece (or turd by turd, as it may be), we can debunk the whole pile with two words ... "Geographic polymorphism".

Look it up Ricky, you might actually learn something. But then, you aren't really looking for the facts, are you?
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardsatc View Post
It's difficult to tell whether this bozo is truly this ignorant of basic scientific and biological principles or whether he is intentionally misrepresenting the science in order to promote his own agenda. I suspect it's a combination of both ...
I know what you mean. He will define a term (polymorphism, phenotype, whatever) and the definition is usually pretty accurate, but then he will use it out of context and stretch the application of the term to cover arguments that don't really hold up. It's murky as to whether he's just so caught up in the debate that he doesn't realize the logical acrobatics it took to get there, or if he's just 1000% set on a conclusion already and will lie, cheat, and steal just to arrive there.

A typical argument goes like this. He'll make a statement like "Frogs CAN interbreed" early in the argument. OK, makes sense. Later in the paragraph he will say something like "...and since we know that frogs DO interbreed in the wild". Well, kinda', right? Under certain circumstances crossbreed intergrades can and do occur. It's definitely not the norm. Then later in the argument he will make a statement with the implication that we SHOULD be crossbreeding because it's an ecologically sound decisions, and he's using his previous two statements as the sole proof for that argument! Then the next statement is something like "...and we here at USdartfrogs are the only ones doing what we SHOULD be doing, crossbreeding". That's one heck of a conclusion to come to when really the only 100% accurate statement you made is that frogs CAN interbreed.

It's a weird debate tactic and he could teach a class on it - "How to Argue With Dumb People 101". It's almost like a typical person will accept a 10% inaccuracy in any statement without challenging it. If you're willing to push it all you need is a ten-point argument and you can prove anything.

I keep reading his statements and they are so slanted I think "Oh, he just doesn't know. He misunderstands the term", but then when I see the minor corrections he makes to close up the debate loopholes but never addresses the underlying anti-logic, I realize that it's just a debate for him and he can really only afford to come to one conclusion because he's based his business model on it.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:44 PM
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DFW.JPG

Must be they've taken their "innovations" to a new level. What do you think vintage baseball mitts have to do with frogs? lol
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:46 PM
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I realize that it's just a debate for him and he can really only afford to come to one conclusion because he's based his business model on it.
And I'd be willing to bet that he's already got a bunch of mutt frogs he needs to unload.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:35 PM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Here's a fun quote from their site...

"we know of MANY reputable froggers and love them!!!"

I challenge them to find one reputable frogger that loves them back... and will admit it publicly.
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Old 03-21-2014, 07:53 PM
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Default re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Why do they keep knocking Repashy?

Feeder Culturing
Independent, multiple customer tests, proves our media out-performs Repashy fly culture media!


Important scientific lesson Rick: Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true. If you make a claim like that or all the others, and refuse to back it up/publish the results of your "studies", then you can't say that. There is nothing to back you up, and compound this with your horrible reputation and general crappynes, nobody will even think about considering your results.
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dendro Dave View Post
Here's a fun quote from their site...

"we know of MANY reputable froggers and love them!!!"

I challenge them to find one reputable frogger that loves them back... and will admit it publicly.
Here's another fun quote Dave:

Quote:
Originally Posted by safedartfrogs.com website
Now we offer: DENDROBED™ and DENDROLID™ our newest innovations ripe for release.
The only thing ripe is the mountain of bullshit on the Northeast side of Memphis.

... obviously, I'm bored today ...
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Old 03-22-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by InvertaHerp View Post
Why do they keep knocking Repashy?

Feeder Culturing
Independent, multiple customer tests, proves our media out-performs Repashy fly culture media!


Important scientific lesson Rick: Just because you say something doesn't mean it's true. If you make a claim like that or all the others, and refuse to back it up/publish the results of your "studies", then you can't say that. There is nothing to back you up, and compound this with your horrible reputation and general crappynes, nobody will even think about considering your results.
They want people to think they are the end all be all of the Dart frog world. They are basically running a propaganda machine over there, pulling out every sleazy tactic they think they can get away with. They also keep manufacturing fake or at least overblown conspiracies about other sellers trying to scam people with bad info, or inventing controversies that didn't really exist, and now they are calling other vendors frogs "generic". So if you don't get name brand frogs from them, well you're just not cool

They've alienated the entire hobby community. They are probably persona non grata at any reptile show, or it will at least get awkward if they show their face in public, and now they're stepping on other vendors' toes. They continue to dig their hole deeper with every website edit or picture posted... In light of all this I've decided to fully support them in everything they do, because they have repeatedly demonstrated that they are their own worst enemy. They'll do more damage to themselves then we'll ever do.
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