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Old 04-09-2006, 11:00 PM
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Default Dark Patricia's

I recently posted some of my offspring for sale and there has been some confusion over their origin. If you look at the pictures http://www.dendroboard.com/coppermine/i ... ?cat=10066 the offspring resemble cobalts much more than the average patricia. The color fades as they grow older but it does take quite awhile. There is absolutley NO chance that they came from cobalt parents or were mixed up or anythingalong those lines. The only guess anyone has ever suggested is the way the tadpoles are raised. They are raised individually in shoebox size rubbermaid style containers. The water is very dark green as they are kept under lights and there is no water changes. I feed them betta bytes (which after looking at the container it says color enhancing and there is an ingredient called cobalt sulfate) and ff put in the freezer and dried out. Of course they graze on the algae and oak leaves. The temp is fairly cool between 69-72 and because of that it takes about 3-4 months to morph but they always morph out large. I do not know what my mortality rate is, but it is extremely low. And of the tons and tons of tadpoles of all species raised this way I have never had a case of spindly. The azureus that morph out come out with a sort of torqouize/greenish tinge but that quickly fades. The parents are fed the average diet of fruit flies with the herpvite and repcal, but I do supplement their diet quite a bit with lobster roaches and in the summer ants and field plankton. Does anyone have any ideas on this? I know there was a post in which someone suggested most of the pattern and color comes from the tadpole stage. Has anyone done any formal studies on this? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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Adam Burnley
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Old 04-10-2006, 12:35 AM
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There's nothing wrong with your frogs. When Patricias came in there was a great deal of variability. Your offspring easily fall within that variability. I have a trio of wc from their first or second importation that have almost identical colors and their adults. Don't worry about it.

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Chuck
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Old 04-10-2006, 12:53 AM
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Which colors in particular are you saying fade as they get older? The blue and/or the yellow? Sounds just like they are getting a lot of color influencing foods during the tadpole stage, so they are coming out darker in coloration, which fade, or possibly more appropriately "spreads" since the animal grows in size and the coloration is spread thinner, as they age. What you're saying about the azureus also leads me to believe this as lots of caretiniods in the diet (the color enhancers in the betta bites) gives them a greenish tinge, and would make patricia froglets have much bolder yellow, and the legs darker due to the extra pigmentation darkening them up (this wouldn't be influened as much in cobalts since their blue is caused by iridiphores, not diet dependent, where the greenish coloration of a patricia is influenced by diet).

A lot of tinc froglets look similar to each other out of the water, and the differences between them are lessened if you have not seen many of them before, only see them in pics (where you could assume some differences are due to the camera), and don't have the two morphs next to each other to compare (I bet you could see differences between cobalt and patricia froglets of the same age if they were photographed next to each other - cobalts to me have a much more dark blue look, while those still look more greyish blue than straight blue).
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Old 04-10-2006, 04:15 AM
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Right now I have 10 Patiricia froglets out of the water, and they certainly look enough like yours. The blue legs will fade, as will the yellow (even with paprika or cyclopeze supplementation). Posting pics of the parents will help any nonbelievers.

Ryan

(edited for spelling and gallery photos)

Your adult patricias have a bit more yellow than mine, but I bet it's just variability. My froglet still look like yours.
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Old 04-11-2006, 01:12 AM
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Thank you all for the replies. The hate email has stopped. Nobody has really second guessed them until now. Corey thank you for your explanation, it always made since to me but you confirmed in a much more factual based and clear way. To answer your question both the blue and yellow colors fade. But that raises another question, I wonder why mine fade and chucks kept their color all the way into adulthood?

Thanks again to all.
Adam Burnley
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Old 04-11-2006, 01:20 AM
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Now that could be because of a variety of things, genetics, diet, supplimentation, conditions they are kept in, etc. Maybe Chuck's are of the lighter variety when they morph, or due to tadpole diet didn't have the level of colorations your froglets have that makes them look like they "fade".
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Old 04-11-2006, 02:13 AM
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Hey Adam, off the subject, but I like your nosey be, they are great chameleons. I had a pair several years ago and got eggs, but they weren't fertle.
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Old 04-13-2006, 01:31 AM
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Thanks!

He is my only "real pet" They are extremely intelligent. I'm amazed that they have the ability to tell the difference between people. To him, I mean food, anybody else gets the puff and snap.

Too bad your eggs were infertile, I hear chameleon eggs are hard to do.
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