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Old 02-08-2006, 11:41 AM
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Default House Flies

Seeing the ad for houseflies, brings back some memories about how , years ago, we attempted to produce the same flightless housefly. As a matter of fact, not only our business but some other very well established labs that we collaborated with.

Here are some bits of information about the success and failures that we discovered. The maggots can only be reared in quanitity on raw liver. Which stinks to high heaven. Secondly, we found that only 70 % were non fliers, and the balance were all over the place. The offspring of the non fliers, also produced fliers. The fly was a concern because it has the ability to transmit human diseases.

I dont recall about the permit situation. But I know that the USDA would be very interested in insuring that whatever state these flies (pests) enter that they be in fact the species as indicated. Which basically means a permit!

I can also tell you, that as opposed to fruitflies, their is no dry medium or simple solution to rearing houseflies. Its like apples and oranges. A completely different animal. So are the rearing requirements.

If the providers can overcome some of the above problems associated with houseflies, I think it would be wonderful. Although we have no desire to sell them, we are users ourself and I can see the benefit of an additional food source. The problem is that many larger facilities have attempted to breed these flies in larger quantity and eventually have given up. Unfortunately, its not a cost effective product. It has a short shelf life, and you cannot breed these once you receive them. They can only be used as food or discarded. JERRY
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:53 PM
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This site makes it sounds like their culturing is pretty easy.

http://www.life.uiuc.edu/ib/109/Insect% ... 20fly.html
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Old 02-08-2006, 01:09 PM
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Default It always seems easy............at first

I can only go by my introduction into the information that was available during the mid 90s. I know from our business, the owners found the liability to great to tamper with.

Over the years I have heard of a variety of different sources attempting to produce some flightless hf, but with limited success. I dont see anything any other source easier to rear than fruitflies. If we are talking size, than its not that critical as other items are available. But the negative features of the odor, the limited non fliers, and a another permit to deal with .............we just dont need.

As I said, I hope these people are successful, but once received, you cannot produce from them. Only use them for food, and at that point they are not cost effective from a business point of view in a livestock catagory.
Some people may be very happy with them! I an sure my baby geckos would enjoy them, but once gone, I dont relish the idea of working with maggots. JERRY
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Old 02-16-2006, 03:24 PM
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Has anyone tried this mix for house flies????

http://tinyurl.com/bdfcc <edited to reduce gargantuan URL, Catfur>


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Old 02-16-2006, 03:59 PM
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Why is it that you cannot breed these flies when you receive them?
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Instead of keeping more species, why not do more with the species you keep?
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Old 02-16-2006, 09:39 PM
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becuase the offspring of the non-fliers produce fliers. You technically could if you wanted to raise flyers off of rotting meat
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Old 02-16-2006, 10:12 PM
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azdr claims to have a media that doesnt smell....i guess we'll find out how it all works when they start offering the culturing kits they promised and we get some experience with them.
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Old 02-16-2006, 11:23 PM
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This is very interesting, does anyone know how the genetics work. Obviously not autosomal recessive.
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Instead of keeping more species, why not do more with the species you keep?
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Old 02-17-2006, 12:52 AM
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I've been very excited about the new line of truely flightless houseflies coming out and have been talking to Amanda a bunch about it. I've used houseflies in the past for smaller gecko species and treefrogs, and as I work with some larger Epipedobates and treefrogs I'm excited to not only have a chance to work with a truely flightless housefly, but media that doesn't reek!

The AZDR flies don't produce flies, they are suppose to be just like most of the FF mutations standard in the hobby, but just in a bigger fly! None of the "70% flightless" or temperature flutuation revertings that have been talked about for past lines. Less stinky media that they work with and a true breeding line makes for a great new feeder item for some of our larger frogs.

The mentioning of not being able to reproduce them after you recieve them isn't about the genetics of the flies, just that the current "cultures" of the flies are only to feed out, it isn't the media that the flies will breed in and that the maggots will eat. They only contain a food/water source to keep the flies alive for up to a week, not a fully reproducing culture like our FF cultures. They do have the breeding kits coming soon, so that and the right conditions (making sure they have the right temps) and they shouldn't be that bad. They might take slightly more work than FFs, but then again, everything takes slightly more work than FFs, and we are honestly spoiled that there is a "staple" that easy to work with, we shouldn't discount other bug species because they aren't as easy or as fast as FFs!
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Old 02-17-2006, 12:31 PM
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I would take Jerry's post with a grain of salt. :wink:

We've worked with a few colonies of the Flightless House Flies, and they can be cultured easily and with little or no smell and without risk of "transmitting human diseases". Unfortunately, the colonies that we received were not 100% flightless and therefore were disposed of after several generations. My hat's off to the folks at AZDR for getting a truly flightless line to the hobby - we need it.
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Old 02-17-2006, 05:35 PM
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Default History has a way of repeating itself

I know almost 12 years ago, their was a very large company called, Carolina Biologicals, which I am sure most of you have heard of, attempted to breed hf . We were in constant touch with their Drosophila dept because we were supplying them with Hydei at that time. The 70% hatch rate of non flyers presented enormous problems, because of the uncertanty in the amount of flyers that would be produced. That was just an estimation. The flies in order to be commercially viable had to be rared on raw liver. The odor from what we understood was so obnoxious that attempts to breed were finally done outside, and then abandoned.

Here we are in 2006, and efforts are still being attempted. I dont doubt that some success is in the offing, but hf flies, are a different breed of animal. I wish whoever is attempting to produce a strain of non flyers , that will stay non fliers would be an excellent addition. But all indications seem to suggest that dry mediums, similar to fruitfly culturing , not only produces very small amounts but is not cost effective in relation to large scale sales. Secondly, many attempt over the years have produced a mixed bag. We did it 12 years ago and abandoned the idea, and other gravesite efforts eventually lead to the inescapable conclusion that it was.......not worth it. But any ray of hope is worth another look, and maybe some positive results will be forthcoming.
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Old 02-17-2006, 06:15 PM
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With the amount of people I know that order pupae to hatch out and feed to animals (the perfectly normal flying kind no less!) I think it is from a business standpoint worth the years of going thru different "flightless" genetic mutations to find one that is viable, rather than trying to make the same line work, when it won't. They are not worked with nearly to the degree or Drosphilia are (why we have so many stable genetic variations of them as feeders in the hobby) so it doesn't suprise me that it took so long to find a stable variation. The "Mostly flightless" line hasn't made it in the hobby for the "mostly" reason, but it seems like this line will probibly take the herp hobby by storm! Most of the old worries have been worked out, so why worry people with them?

Like Derek mentioned, I don't think it was the media issue holding back the FHFs, we've had years upon years to come up with viable substitutes. There were obviously some genetic issues with the old strain that allowed for some fliers, so it wasn't a completely recessive trait that would knock out the flying ability from the line (unless mixed with another line obviously, but we've got that same thing with FFs). AZDR's bloodline is not the same! Fliers are not an issue! It's an old problem that has been fixed with a new genetic mutation.
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Old 02-17-2006, 06:22 PM
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Default house flys

sounds good to me!
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Old 03-02-2006, 06:06 PM
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Perhaps it is time to start looking for larger species of fruit flies to feed to our frogs?
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Old 03-02-2006, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain_Frog
Perhaps it is time to start looking for larger species of fruit flies to feed to our frogs?
In the works...
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Old 03-02-2006, 09:59 PM
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However, I don't think any have been genetically altered to be flightless.
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