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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2013, 03:28 PM
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Default New owners? :-(

Well, by now a lot of people have seen the post that Kyle has sold the Forum to Vertical Scope. VerticalScope : Acquisitions While vertical scope has come in and said things will be business as usual, I am skeptical. I have been a member of 3 different automotive forums that, at the time, were hobbyist owned, only to be sold to Vertical scope. Changes were gradual at first, but picked up momentum fast. Many people left, frustrated with changes.

As a for profit business, vertical scopes #1 priority seems to be ad-space. Lots of it. It will clog pages, and slow down page loads DRAMATICALLY.

At 2 of the past forums, our ability to attach images hosted by the forum was immediately suspended and terminated. This meant your only option was to use Photobucket, or other. Because most people do not pay for these photohosting sites, they have limited space to upload pics, which means constantlyremoving one pic in order to upload another. The end result is thread after thread without pics because the owner of those pics has deleted or moved them.

Another, is a lack of ANY interaction with member concerns. In other forums, Mods were essentially given 100% control and power. This resulted in all kinds of problems that would take me a long time to explain.

All in all, I am hopeful, but not expecting for things to stay the same or improve. My only intent with this thread, is to bring an awareness to everyone in the coming future.

I would hope we could get some feedback from vertical scope on what they DO plan on changing.
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Hopefully if things go according to plan, there is someone currently looking into creating a new forum & it will happen fairly quickly from what I understand. Just be on the lookout.
We will all have a new home soon enough.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:07 PM
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Post a link here when possible
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Cough... cough... Dartden... plus a lot already frequently go there now. And we are having a fun chat with dartfrogconnection... come join in the fun

Casper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
Hopefully if things go according to plan, there is someone currently looking into creating a new forum & it will happen fairly quickly from what I understand. Just be on the lookout.
We will all have a new home soon enough.
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

That's truly unfortunate..
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost vivs View Post
Cough... cough... Dartden... plus a lot already frequently go there now. And we are having a fun chat with dartfrogconnection... come join in the fun

Casper
Theres also alot who want no part of Dartden Casper. Most consider it exile island due to the fact its where most banned DB members ended up.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

This may have happened, and I/we don't know about it, but I wish Kyle had offered the site to one of us interested in maintaining it with OUR best interests at heart, the hobbyists
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdfCrazy View Post
This may have happened, and I/we don't know about it, but I wish Kyle had offered the site to one of us interested in maintaining it with OUR best interests at heart, the hobbyists
As far as Ive been told, it did NOT happen & there's alot of people that aren't very happy about it. Especially considering that's how it was originally obtained from my understanding.
But alas, what's done is done & all we can do now is move on & build another great community somewhere else.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
Theres also alot who want no part of Dartden Casper. Most consider it exile island due to the fact its where most banned DB members ended up.
Don't worry, Taron is banned there too!!

I honestly don't understand that attitude. Just because someone is banned from DB does that mean they don't have any valuable knowledge to contribute?
Or do people think the hobby is all frogs, kittens, and rainbows? Anyone afraid of the truth?


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Old 05-23-2013, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_Shackleford View Post
Don't worry, Taron is banned there too!!

I honestly don't understand that attitude. Just because someone is banned from DB does that mean they don't have any valuable knowledge to contribute?
Or do people think the hobby is all frogs, kittens, and rainbows? Anyone afraid of the truth?


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Idk Jon, it's just the sentiment that I'M hearing. Granted, yes there were some people wrongfully banned ... but then again, there's a few that definitely deserved that fate.

And there's some people that others just don't want to have to deal with. Idk what "truth" has to do with people just not wanting to migrate over to DD. Its all personal preference.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Hey guys,

Thanks for bringing up this thread. I don't think there is anything I can say that will reassure you if you've made a decision in your mind. The best I can say is to give us a chance on here. Every community is different. Our approach with every community is different.

I'll give you an example:

With regards to sponsors, you cannot compare automotive sponsors with pet sponsors. On many occasions, the community and/or leadership has told me, "we don't want "x" sponsor here because they go against our values." When we get this feedback, we make sure to act on it.

As for changes, I cannot sit here and say nothing is ever going to NOT change on this site. With or without us here, can anyone make that statement and be 100% assured it will happen? I mean, what if one day, a user comes here and makes a suggestion of, "this site needs a new paint job" and it garners traction and then everyone on board wants it?

What I did say to the moderator team is that I'm not here to rattle things up. I'm here to work with the moderators together to serve the community. All I ask is that you give it time to see if something happens to that site that you really cannot stand or if minimal things happen.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:32 PM
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As with any new owners they will probably want to make their money back as soon as possible. They will probably do this in ad space as suggested above. Hopefully not too much changes and we will be able to keep Dendroboard.com as our current home.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost vivs View Post
Cough... cough... Dartden... plus a lot already frequently go there now. And we are having a fun chat with dartfrogconnection... come join in the fun

Casper
Seriously? No thanks.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yungster View Post
Hey guys,

Thanks for bringing up this thread. I don't think there is anything I can say that will reassure you if you've made a decision in your mind. The best I can say is to give us a chance on here. Every community is different. Our approach with every community is different.

I'll give you an example:

With regards to sponsors, you cannot compare automotive sponsors with pet sponsors. On many occasions, the community and/or leadership has told me, "we don't want "x" sponsor here because they go against our values." When we get this feedback, we make sure to act on it.

As for changes, I cannot sit here and say nothing is ever going to NOT change on this site. With or without us here, can anyone make that statement and be 100% assured it will happen? I mean, what if one day, a user comes here and makes a suggestion of, "this site needs a new paint job" and it garners traction and then everyone on board wants it?

What I did say to the moderator team is that I'm not here to rattle things up. I'm here to work with the moderators together to serve the community. All I ask is that you give it time to see if something happens to that site that you really cannot stand or if minimal things happen.
I can't speak for everybody but I think the biggest concerns are that this forum will be turned into a business model that's only concerned with ad space & profitability at the cost of us, the community.
We don't really want a forum laden with ads or ads totally irrelevant to our hobby.

Another concern that I've heard is over sponsorship rates & how those will be affected.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Nick,

Thanks for your comment.

When you get a chance, please go visit petguide.com and see our network of pet communities. That goes for everyone. Users who are registered will always see less ads than an unregistered user. Some sites had premium memberships that provide even less ads that are visible to those who purchased it.

These are things we can talk about down the road in their own dedicated thread so I won't miss anything.

As for sponsorship rates, I can't address this because it's not my area firstly and as of this very moment, I don't know all the details of it. I will make it a point to speak with Kyle about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
I can't speak for everybody but I think the biggest concerns are that this forum will be turned into a business model that's only concerned with ad space & profitability at the cost of us, the community.
We don't really want a forum laden with ads or ads totally irrelevant to our hobby.

Another concern that I've heard is over sponsorship rates & how those will be affected.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

I hope management will keep in mind that the primary concern for most of the people here is not the products or even the posters, but, the wellbeing of the animals we care for.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

We are VERY aware of this.

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I hope management will keep in mind that the primary concern for most of the people here is not the products or even the posters, but, the wellbeing of the animals we care for.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Yes seriously.

Both forums have flaws and I am 100% positive you can look past flaws Shawn.

And if people think those banned from dendro are not here now under different user names you are sadly mistaken.

I would rather have all the messed up stuff in our hobby out in the open. Not hidden in the shadows. Just look at the DFC drama. You probably know what is going on with them because you are a mod here. I for one do not think that info should be for only a select few...


Casper


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Seriously? No thanks.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Rusty_Shackleford View Post
Or do people think the hobby is all frogs, kittens, and rainbows?
I know someone here who might try to make a vivarium like that...
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:53 PM
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Yungster, welcome to DB. The one thing about life, change is the only constant. I loved the old DB and I look forward to the new DB. I'm not leaving, I'll always be a regular poster, or poster child lol.
Over the years I've been a regular visitor to many forums on many different subjects and the dart frog community is very unique, very close and opinionated. I look forward to moving ahead and seeing what the future has to offer. Best of luck on your new venture.
Jon.


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Old 05-23-2013, 07:57 PM
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Idk Jon, it's just the sentiment that I'M hearing. Granted, yes there were some people wrongfully banned ... but then again, there's a few that definitely deserved that fate.

And there's some people that others just don't want to have to deal with. Idk what "truth" has to do with people just not wanting to migrate over to DD. Its all personal preference.
Nick, to each their own. I post and enjoy both forums. If there were a third major dart forum I would probably post there as well. Knowledge is power.


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Old 05-23-2013, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

I too, will be staying ... for now.

I have my reservations, but I will give it some time to see what direction this goes first before making a final decision.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

What a potential nightmare! My first thought is that if they suspend/remove the site hosted photos, as Chris states they have done before, they will destroy YEARS worth of knowledge and research.
Personally speaking, if they destroy all the threads I have contributed to, I won't be spending the huge amount of time it would take to try to rebuild them, here on DendroBoard. I would feel..."middle fingered" so to speak.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
I would feel..."middle fingered" so to speak.
I think alot of us already feel this way due to the recent events & how theyve been resolved Doug.
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Old 05-23-2013, 08:14 PM
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I too, will be staying ... for now.

I have my reservations, but I will give it some time to see what direction this goes first before making a final decision.
I totally agree


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Old 05-23-2013, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
What a potential nightmare! My first thought is that if they suspend/remove the site hosted photos, as Chris states they have done before, they will destroy YEARS worth of knowledge and research.
Personally speaking, if they destroy all the threads I have contributed to, I won't be spending the huge amount of time it would take to try to rebuild them, here on DendroBoard. I would feel..."middle fingered" so to speak.
It would be catastrophic and leads back to my post about concern for the wellbeing of our animals. Visual information is very important in the care of PDFs. If we lose our visual catalogue of PDF health, care, and how-to, I predict a pretty immediate stampede out of here.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
What a potential nightmare! My first thought is that if they suspend/remove the site hosted photos, as Chris states they have done before
Yungster, could you address this please? Is there a real possibility of this?

For the record, I enjoy DB, DD, Canadart and few UK forums. There's plenty of Dart frog forums to visit, post and learn.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

The best way I can answer this question is by posing this question: Has anything been deleted or lost in the migration that you are aware of? If not, you can be assured NOTHING will be removed that is currently on the site (unless it breaks one of the rules in the community).
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Ok ok, I have a question!

There are some folks who have lost their rights to advertise on the board due to unscrupulous business practices and/or sick, stolen, smuggled, ficticious frogs.

Will you uphold these bans or will anyone be permitted to use your site for advertisement?
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Kris: It's business as usual. Whatever was done before we got here shall remain as is unless the leadership makes a decision otherwise.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yungster View Post
Kris: It's business as usual. Whatever was done before we got here shall remain as is unless the leadership makes a decision otherwise.
I guess I'm not going to leave a good first impression on our new owners for this, but I feel it should be mentioned.
I'm sorry, but that really confuses me. What are you saying? "Business as usual"? "Unless the leadership makes a decision otherwise"?
Isn't that what might be termed "doubletalk"? It just looks like you are saying "don't worry about it", while at the same time telling us that it's business and you might choose to sell them advertising space again.
Please don't forget, selling advertising to the thieves and cheaters is only temporary. They will pull their advertising if the hobbyists all bail from the site.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Let me clarify. It's business as usual. That means that I'm working together with the current moderators that include Kyle. Everything will go through the moderator process as it always has. That's why it's business as usual. It also means that the leadership in place (which includes Kyle), has the ability to have a discussion of making changes in the interest of the community.

Personally, I don't see why all of a sudden, the moderators would reverse a decision they (presumably) made under the old ownership. This is why I said "unless the leadership makes a decision otherwise."

I would be surprised if all of a sudden, we start reversing bans that were dished out.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

Let me reassure you I have already asked many of these questions before even considering the sale. Obviously they have the right to make changes, but if you look at it from a raw business perspective what sense would it make to upset the community? The community is the site and VerticalScope is well aware of that.

Like past discussions there is always more than meets the eye. I personally understand the impact of locally stored photos both good and bad. In my opinion we have managed the current solution in a way that it scales but I am also aware of many sites that did not and it creates a issue where you can not sustain the site. In short that situation in general is much more complex and there are situations where change is required.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
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I would be surprised if all of a sudden, we start reversing bans that were dished out.

As far as I'm concerned,That's not going to happen!
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

I'd rather go without than go to that ...

s
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

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Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
What a potential nightmare! My first thought is that if they suspend/remove the site hosted photos, as Chris states they have done before, they will destroy YEARS worth of knowledge and research.
Personally speaking, if they destroy all the threads I have contributed to, I won't be spending the huge amount of time it would take to try to rebuild them, here on DendroBoard. I would feel..."middle fingered" so to speak.
Doug, I dont mean that previously constructed threads, along with their pics, would now be stripped of those "attached" pics. Only that, in the instance of these 3 auto forums, after vertical scope purchased them, they discontinued the abilty to "upload" pics to threads, and instead left members with the only option being usign photohosting sites like photobucket. When you show images within a thread using photobucket, Dendroboard is not actually hostign the image, just a complexity of script that allows the image to appear from photobucket. From a purely financial standpoint, I can see why they would make this decision. Text takes up almost no space at all on a server, photo's take up ALOT more space on the hard drives. However, every forum and its associated subject is different. Say for instance, a forum on computers, images may not be anywhere near as important as they are in our hobby. If vertical scope takes away our ability to atach images (and I dont mean photobucket) I fo rone will be migrating to another site. I hope they hear our concerns, and will continue to host our uploaded images.

I am distubed by the suggestion, that I must become a "premium member" in order to avoid loads of banners and advertising. Obviously, becoming a "premium member" includes monthly payments.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

@pdfCrazy:

The comment about premium memberships was meant as an illustration of what we have on our other sites. As it stands, this community already has a 'dedicated supporter' program in place so the concept isn't exactly new.

As for the ability to upload images, you were correct in saying that images take up hard drive space easily. Hard drive space can quickly fill up and become costly. If the community isn't paying for it (and I've never seen this happen), then ads will pay for it.

Please, visit some of our petguide.com sites and create a test account. You will see that they are NOT littered with ads for registered users. It is very reasonable placement of them.

If you believe that this site (whether we own it or Kyle still owns it) should have zero ads, zero membership support programs and unlimited ability to upload images (as oppose to using a service like Photobucket), we will have to agree to disagree on those points.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

He merely suggested it was something other sites do. Stop making simple comments into huge deals.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

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Originally Posted by pdfCrazy View Post
This may have happened, and I/we don't know about it, but I wish Kyle had offered the site to one of us interested in maintaining it with OUR best interests at heart, the hobbyists
I think the main thing is $ and time. do you have any of it or both. to me it seems that this would be your "job" running a site. you have your mods but they have lives and jobs.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:19 AM
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Default Re: New owners? :-(

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Originally Posted by kyle1745 View Post
He merely suggested it was something other sites do. Stop making simple comments into huge deals.
OK............., I was just trying to share my opinion. Wasnt trying to cause a rucus.

Last edited by pdfCrazy; 05-24-2013 at 02:22 AM.
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