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Old 08-10-2013, 04:42 PM
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Default The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback should be reconsidered. I understand the rationale behind it, but it's outweighed by the benefit of allowing someone who is newer in the hobby or just doesn't have much to say, to post an opinion. Are they not qualified?

For example. If there is a well known business that sells lots of frogs to newbies and does a poor job at it, wouldn't you want the community to know about that?

For those of you who are going to make arguments to support the current rule, please just listen or think about it for now. Think about all of the well known websites out there that allow reviews to be posted without a bunch of activity prior i.e. Yelp, Google, etc.

For those of you who who think "but anyone can create an account and then post a review". So what? It does not protect anything but a clique. If you want to grow the hobby responsibly, this is the way to do it.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

If you don't have 25 posts yet - save your VF for when you and you can enter them all at once.

We've had too many issues (in the past) with people throwing up fake profiles so that they could give themselves positive feedback.

It's weak - but it has happened more than a few times.

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Old 08-10-2013, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

... and if this has happened - you need to let the Mods know about it. They might be able to help you out in your situation.

s
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Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
...

For example. If there is a well known business that sells lots of frogs to newbies and does a poor job at it, wouldn't you want the community to know about that?
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
If you don't have 25 posts yet - save your VF for when you and you can enter them all at once.

We've had too many issues (in the past) with people throwing up fake profiles so that they could give themselves positive feedback.

It's weak - but it has happened more than a few times.

s
I didn't think it would take long for a status quo opinion to come along and say why it wouldn't work instead of discussing the benefits. Sounds like a problem with enforcement. Other websites seem to be able to manage just fine. Need more examples then Yelp and Google?

Also consider that people are smart enough to look at a join date and a post count to make their own determination.
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Old 08-10-2013, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

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Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
I didn't think it would take long for a status quo opinion to come along and say why it wouldn't work instead of discussing the benefits. Sounds like a problem with enforcement. Other websites seem to be able to manage just fine. Need more examples then Yelp and Google?

Also consider that people are smart enough to look at a join date and a post count to make their own determination.
Google has just a wee bit more money coming in than DB does. They can afford it. Our moderators are unpaid volunteers and have plenty to do already.
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Besides, why give us more work when everyone can share the burden of weeding out "the bad" while, at the same time, sticking around and contributing to the community with meaningful posts?
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

I understand your reasoning, but there is nothing I want to do less than read a review from a person who had no idea what they were doing when they purchased a frog or a plant, didn't try to contact the seller and then start an account just so they can bash the seller when their animal/plant dies from their ignorance.

IMO, its way better to get them to post a few questions, get involved in the forum and figure out for themselves it was their fault before they just come in blasting somebody.
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

On the other hand - this system has worked itself out over a long time.

So the "status quo" was built up over years - not the few minutes it took me to come along and let you know the reasoning.

Sorry you don't like it - but it's the system that has worked best for keeping self promoting hacks at bay.

[edit: ... and man - is everyone a critic?]

s
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Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
I didn't think it would take long for a status quo opinion to come along and say why it wouldn't work instead of discussing the benefits. Sounds like a problem with enforcement. Other websites seem to be able to manage just fine. Need more examples then Yelp and Google?

Also consider that people are smart enough to look at a join date and a post count to make their own determination.
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Last edited by Scott; 08-11-2013 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

As Scott mentioned there was a good amount of abuse of previous attempts and so far this method has worked well.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
For those of you who are going to make arguments to support the current rule, please just listen or think about it for now.
The statement above in my original post is being ignored. I was not looking for site mods, admins and long-time members jump in and defend the current rule. The point of my post was not to start with a debate. I did see some arguments that would not hold water or were just silly. Based on the who responded and the content of those responses, I think any reply by little ol' me would be futile. I'll let sleeping dogs lie.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
If you don't have 25 posts yet - save your VF for when you and you can enter them all at once.

We've had too many issues (in the past) with people throwing up fake profiles so that they could give themselves positive feedback.

It's weak - but it has happened more than a few times.

s
Most people who had a rough time are not going to wait 25 posts to give feedback. They are just going to give up. If you were pissed about a bad app you bought would you wait till you made 25 google plus posts before you reviewed it if you didn't use google plus?

I think there is a medium ground but doubt that anyone will take the time to do it.

Think about newegg, the worlds greatest review site. They had problems with companies paying people, or trolls just trolling the reviews. But they also knew much like this site that the information contained in their reviews drew in millions of people every year that would otherwise not go to newegg. So the solution for them was to create a new class of reviews, verified reviewers. These are people who have actually purchased that product on newegg.com so you know they really owned it and are not just fan boys or haters.

Why can't dendroboard make a newbie review stand out? or put a disclaimer in the top of any post made in the feedback section that the person cannot edit out that says they have less than 25 posts or something. That way people who want to can filter through for the more experienced reviews, and those who do not want to can just read them all.

Also there is something I think people are getting completely wrong, google, amazon, etc. these guys don't pay people cause it cost serious money to weed out bad reviews etc... They let the community do it through crowd sourcing. Give people the ability to "review" a review. They have responses, they have ratings for reviews. Was it helpful or not. Many of these things are just plugins that already exist for forums etc... Like your like feature here.

Last edited by Pubfiction; 08-11-2013 at 05:19 AM.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Ok I may not have 25 posts but I have been a member for over 2 years so should that be a valid idea about allowing after a certain amount of time>? I tried to give Jason from Blue Pumilio some good feedback today and have not been allowed due to the post numbers. I guess this will be one closer. But realistically some people such as myself do not post a lot but just sit back and learn. I don't post usually because of the wrath or the "search button" cronies or the 'to good to answer that question" crowd. But I do think that time as a member should be a valid point for vendor feedback. This is a prime example due to the fact that Jason had a couple bad feedback statements that I found that made me worry a little and would have liked to post my feedback for others to realize my experience.
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

ctsdaxx - just contact one of the two administrators (Kyle or Yungster) and they'll likely do that for you.

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Old 08-11-2013, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Also just so the mods know, on other forums with posting limits for various areas the other result that comes up is lots of meaningless short posts form people with low posts counts trying to get past that threshold.
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
The statement above in my original post is being ignored. I was not looking for site mods, admins and long-time members jump in and defend the current rule. The point of my post was not to start with a debate. I did see some arguments that would not hold water or were just silly. Based on the who responded and the content of those responses, I think any reply by little ol' me would be futile. I'll let sleeping dogs lie.
That's just rude. They were valid points, not "silly" as you shrug them off as. Why aren't you volunteering your time to do all the extra work, instead of asking our unpaid volunteers to do it?
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

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That's just rude. They were valid points, not "silly" as you shrug them off as. Why aren't you volunteering your time to do all the extra work, instead of asking our unpaid volunteers to do it?
Ouch! How can I help? I would be happy to. Here's an example of something I have done to improve the community in the past: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fee...inks-page.html What else would be helpful? Would you like me to moderate? I have some experience.
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Old 08-11-2013, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
Ouch! How can I help? I would be happy to. Here's an example of something I have done to improve the community in the past: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fee...inks-page.html What else would be helpful? Would you like me to moderate? I have some experience.
My point is, it is a public forum. You opened up a subject for discussion. The thread now has a life of it's own. It's not fair to set up one sided "rules" for your thread. How come it is ok for you to post your complaints and grievances about the system in place, but we are not allowed to try and explain anything? Only you are allowed to have an opinion because you started the thread?
Valid points are made and you just shrug them off, declare the lot of them, "silly", and tell us we are not playing by the rules?
Yes, I found that annoying.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

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My point is, it is a public forum. You opened up a subject for discussion. The thread now has a life of it's own. It's not fair to set up one sided "rules" for your thread. How come it is ok for you to post your complaints and grievances about the system in place, but we are not allowed to try and explain anything? Only you are allowed to have an opinion because you started the thread?
Valid points are made and you just shrug them off, declare the lot of them, "silly", and tell us we are not playing by the rules?
Yes, I found that annoying.
As the OP, I specifically requested "For those of you who are going to make arguments to support the current rule, please just listen or think about it for now." You are correct, you have the right not to respect that. My goal was merely to try to get some members and moderators who have been around here for a some time, to listen to new ideas before stating why the current method can't be improved upon.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

But in doing so, you present your opinion as the only valid one. You present your idea as the only right one.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:24 AM
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But in doing so, you present your opinion as the only valid one. You present your idea as the only right one.
With that, you have had the last word.
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

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But in doing so, you present your opinion as the only valid one. You present your idea as the only right one.
FWIW, that's not how I read the original post. To me it felt more like a call for charity in the philosophical sense, meaning suspension of critique along with search for the virtue or strength of an idea. In this light, I interpreted OP's question something like "all reasons supporting the 25-post policy aside, what would be possible benefits of ending or loosening it?" That doesn't present OP's idea as the only valid or right one, only as one that merits discussion without being dismissed out of hand.

As someone currently affected by this policy, I think I'd probably contribute more if I didn't feel of lower status here. I appreciate that administration needs a way to control shill ratings but why can't I ask public questions on a plant classified thread? Being shut out of all classified threads for an indeterminate time is annoying and feels arbitrary, legitimate rationale or no. Could listing threads be distinguished from feedback ones for this purpose?
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Nat - the reasoning is sort of the same in regards to Classifieds.

We've had too many people who just pop on DB long enough to sell something. They're not interested in the community.

We're interested in having a community (no matter how dysfunctional it gets at times).

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Old 08-12-2013, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Thanks for the reply, Scott. Could the classifieds section be modified to allow noobs to reply but not create new threads?
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Gnathaniel, the way I get around that is to just pm direct. Probably the reason I have less than 25 posts in 2 + years. It's also easier than be criticized or reprimanded by the lot of cyber bullies!
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

Thats some really messed up stuff if someone needs to give themselves good reviews.I thought it was all a big mess about 25 posts.Ive been on here for awhile a never used anything but information now I want to be able to sell an gotta find my way around just to post enough stuff.guess its 3 of 25 now.
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

nicley said gnathaniel we are all here for the same reason we love the frogs we keep why should anyone have to feel less than anyone else?I dont get it Ive been breeding frogs for 5 years there always something more to learn but think Ive got it down pretty well.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

I'd be all for that - we'll see if the Administrators come along and have anything to say.

[See? Not *all* ideas get swatted like mosquitoes. ]

s
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Thanks for the reply, Scott. Could the classifieds section be modified to allow noobs to reply but not create new threads?
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: The idea of requiring 25 posts before vendor feedback

If a newer member needs to contact someone for a ad they can us a PM.
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