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Old 07-01-2020, 05:14 AM
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Default Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

When reading on tadpoles I find basically one set of instructions for raising dart frog tadpoles all along the lines of water, almond leaf, and maybe java moss piece. I remember once seeing Phyllobates Terribilis should have clean water and maybe an air stone since they use streams and not standing water. Is this the case? I can't find anything with the search function.
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Old 07-01-2020, 08:13 AM
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I have the best result in raising them individualy in plastic cups with a european oak leaf in it and hikari koi staples.
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Old 07-01-2020, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

I've only bred them for the first time, but I'm doing similar.

Individual cups with a piece of almond leaf. They're growing and doing well so far.

I don't recall reading about them using streams -- do you happen to remember where you saw that?

I believe the conservationists at Rana Terribilis Reserve place shallow vessels to collect rainwater around the reserve for the frogs to use.
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Old 07-01-2020, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

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Originally Posted by aapuzzo View Post
When reading on tadpoles I find basically one set of instructions for raising dart frog tadpoles all along the lines of water, almond leaf, and maybe java moss piece. I remember once seeing Phyllobates Terribilis should have clean water and maybe an air stone since they use streams and not standing water. Is this the case? I can't find anything with the search function.
Dendrozone on Youtube used a combination of an aquarium with a filter and cups. He wouldn't put them into the aquarium until they were a week or 2 old (from memory) because he said the bigger ones in the aquarium would eat the newborns. Once they were a few weeks old though they were ok to raise together so long as they were well fed.

I think whether you use cups or an aquarium will have a lot to do with how many you have and your happiness with using an aquarium. If you are raising dozens, cups look to be a bit of a pain. Or if you just like using aquariums (maybe already own some etc) then its easy enough to set one up.
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Old 07-01-2020, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

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Originally Posted by minorhero View Post
Dendrozone on Youtube used a combination of an aquarium with a filter and cups. He wouldn't put them into the aquarium until they were a week or 2 old (from memory) because he said the bigger ones in the aquarium would eat the newborns. Once they were a few weeks old though they were ok to raise together so long as they were well fed.

I think whether you use cups or an aquarium will have a lot to do with how many you have and your happiness with using an aquarium. If you are raising dozens, cups look to be a bit of a pain. Or if you just like using aquariums (maybe already own some etc) then its easy enough to set one up.
I'm with Dendrozone. Newborns (going to start using this term :-) are the only time you have to worry about co-housing Terribs. The newly-hatched fellas just can't avoid getting munched yet. Just a week or two in a separate cup (the newborns can be housed together, too) is plenty to make them viable in the general population. I do nothing with their water. I put tap water in and house every Terrib tad more than 2 weeks old together. They are, however, the only tadpoles I do occasional water changes on since there are so many together in the same tank. There is no reason I can think of not to co-house tads when it is possible. It is just so much easier. I almost never lose a tad. The weakness for my terribs is getting viable eggs in the first place and this is only a problem for my trio at the beginning of the breeding season (and it was much worse when they were learning to breed the first time).

Mark
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

Thanks. It sounds like you confirmed what I was told. Clean water for Terribs and maybe a piece of Java Moss. I was also told I could use an air stone if I wanted to. I imagine set really low.

Right now I have 3 Orange Terribs and 3 Leucs. I was just surprised to see they both arrived in different types of water. When called and asked I was told Terrib tadpoles in the wild are in cleaner moving water so they do better that way. I felt I did my research and had all the supplies needed to raise tads and my world was turned upside down when I saw the terribs shipped one way and Leucs the other. That's why I figured I would ask on here too. 90% of the information you find recommends tea colored water. The only variance I was able to find when searching around had to do with to change or to not do water changes.

I was already prepared with food, almond leaves, java moss, and even blackwater extract and I have an RO filter.

I would be interested to know if anybody raised them in the tea colored water. I did read one person used a leaf with success.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

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Originally Posted by aapuzzo View Post
Thanks. It sounds like you confirmed what I was told. Clean water for Terribs and maybe a piece of Java Moss. I was also told I could use an air stone if I wanted to. I imagine set really low.

Right now I have 3 Orange Terribs and 3 Leucs. I was just surprised to see they both arrived in different types of water. When called and asked I was told Terrib tadpoles in the wild are in cleaner moving water so they do better that way. I felt I did my research and had all the supplies needed to raise tads and my world was turned upside down when I saw the terribs shipped one way and Leucs the other. That's why I figured I would ask on here too. 90% of the information you find recommends tea colored water. The only variance I was able to find when searching around had to do with to change or to not do water changes.

I was already prepared with food, almond leaves, java moss, and even blackwater extract and I have an RO filter.

I would be interested to know if anybody raised them in the tea colored water. I did read one person used a leaf with success.
Here's my terribilis tadpole setup:
https://youtu.be/VsRGUli9i7o

And my setup is based off of Dendrozone's. I keep them together in a 32oz deli cup for a couple weeks then move them to the bigger 2.5 gallon tank. I just plop one or two Indian Almond leaves in the big tank along with some java moss and they're good to go. Once front legs pop I separate them to their own tilted cups.
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

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Here's my terribilis tadpole setup:
https://youtu.be/VsRGUli9i7o

And my setup is based off of Dendrozone's. I keep them together in a 32oz deli cup for a couple weeks then move them to the bigger 2.5 gallon tank. I just plop one or two Indian Almond leaves in the big tank along with some java moss and they're good to go. Once front legs pop I separate them to their own tilted cups.
Thank you so much!!
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Old 07-01-2020, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

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[...]I put tap water in and house every Terrib tad more than 2 weeks old together.
You must have *amazing* tap water. I'd be too worried about Toronto tap. It's fine for drinking, we have some of the best in the world, but in terms of additives I'm not comfortable using it for fish or tads.

I take distilled water and add blackwater extract until it's the colour of very weak tea, and throw some almond leaves in. When water in the cups evaporates I add more. That's been working for me so far but about a month in I may siphon off some debris from the bottom.


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There is no reason I can think of not to co-house tads when it is possible.
Umm...because I'm currently obsessive about observing and documenting and want to know their birthdays?



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[...] The weakness for my terribs is getting viable eggs in the first place and this is only a problem for my trio at the beginning of the breeding season (and it was much worse when they were learning to breed the first time).

Mark
I haven't had a high ratio of viable eggs up to now, but their 8th clutch (this is their first breeding and the number of eggs is a little shocking) looks to have a higher percentage this time around. Slightly alarming.

Do yours wind down naturally or do you need to intervene? This is 8 clutches since May and I really don't want to burn her out. It's always the same female, they seem to be monogamous for the moment...
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

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Do yours wind down naturally or do you need to intervene? This is 8 clutches since May and I really don't want to burn her out. It's always the same female, they seem to be monogamous for the moment...
Speaking on my pair - I've found that I have to remove the petri dish and cut back on feeding to get them to stop (well the female anyway, the male still calls constantly). I've been doing this after every third clutch and giving her several months break.

Their very first clutch ever I had 1 of 9 make it to tadpole stage. Second clutch I had around 20 and third was 12. Took a 3 month break and then her first clutch back was all jelly. Second clutch was around 15 viable.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

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Speaking on my pair - I've found that I have to remove the petri dish and cut back on feeding to get them to stop (well the female anyway, the male still calls constantly). I've been doing this after every third clutch and giving her several months break.

Their very first clutch ever I had 1 of 9 make it to tadpole stage. Second clutch I had around 20 and third was 12. Took a 3 month break and then her first clutch back was all jelly. Second clutch was around 15 viable.
My viability ratios have been all over the place. First clutch was 4 out of 7, since then I've had as many as 24 eggs but a lower viability rate.

So out of 8 clutches they've only used the Petri dish *twice*. They otherwise make use of dead leaves (6 times) or a live plant (once).

I've already been scaling back on feeding and misting but may actually separate them if that doesn't work.

Her weight and condition still look phenomenal but even so, that's a lot of eggs. Maybe some other terribilis keepers can chime in with their experiences.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

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Originally Posted by Fahad View Post
You must have *amazing* tap water. I'd be too worried about Toronto tap. It's fine for drinking, we have some of the best in the world, but in terms of additives I'm not comfortable using it for fish or tads.

I take distilled water and add blackwater extract until it's the colour of very weak tea, and throw some almond leaves in. When water in the cups evaporates I add more. That's been working for me so far but about a month in I may siphon off some debris from the bottom.




Umm...because I'm currently obsessive about observing and documenting and want to know their birthdays?





I haven't had a high ratio of viable eggs up to now, but their 8th clutch (this is their first breeding and the number of eggs is a little shocking) looks to have a higher percentage this time around. Slightly alarming.

Do yours wind down naturally or do you need to intervene? This is 8 clutches since May and I really don't want to burn her out. It's always the same female, they seem to be monogamous for the moment...
We do have amazing tap water. Not only is it very pure but also soft. When I was using it for my planted tank, I used to have to add Ca and Mg to it to make it usable. It was maybe 4 Gh and 2 Kh or vice versa? Don't remember and am super happy I don't have to know that anymore :-)

That is a valid reason :-) I am horrible at documenting, so I can't relate but that is a perfectly good reason to go the single cup route. I warn you though, when you get all of the breeding stuff figured out, you might rethink the cups because you run out of shelf space! I should say one other thing. I have heard that there might be some sort of chemical produced that delays morphing when they are all housed together. I do know that there was almost never a mass-morph event in the tank where several popped front legs all at once. They mostly popped front legs one or, at most, two at a time. No idea if the chemical theory is correct, but there was no doubt about the trend. That might be enough to justify individual cups. Every single one of mine morphs, but it might be stretched over a longer period of time. They all seem to catch up to each other as froglets, though.

That sounds a lot like my Mints' (my only terribs) first breeding season. Seemed like it was 10 or 12 clutches before I got a good percentage of viable eggs. Not only that, but I am maybe 3 or 4 clutches in for this breeding season and I only just pulled my first viable clutch. They do all seem fertile this time. So, no idea why they seem to take a while to ramp up, but they will eventually. Just be patient. The one other thing I can think of is to make sure you are supplementing correctly. Repashy Calcium Plus and Vitamin A Plus are good. The latter might be more needed while they are producing bad (or even lots of) clutches. Maybe even overdrive the Vit A Plus a little beyond the recommended dose.

I just take the breeding hut out. That seems to be adequate to slow mine down. I am also doing that in the Fall when the temps are starting to get cool at night, too, so it maybe a combination of no hut and cool temps.

Good luck!

Mark
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Old 07-01-2020, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Phyllobates Terribilis tadpole care

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We do have amazing tap water. Not only is it very pure but also soft.[...]
That's another thing -- pretty hard water here. Haven't tested it in ages (fish keeping many years ago) but it's not ideal for a lot of purposes for that reason.


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That is a valid reason :-) I am horrible at documenting, so I can't relate but that is a perfectly good reason to go the single cup route. I warn you though, when you get all of the breeding stuff figured out, you might rethink the cups because you run out of shelf space!
With 15 tadpoles in the water and another 2 clutches cooking I can see that happening, yeah.


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Originally Posted by Encyclia View Post
[...] The one other thing I can think of is to make sure you are supplementing correctly. Repashy Calcium Plus and Vitamin A Plus are good. The latter might be more needed while they are producing bad (or even lots of) clutches. Maybe even overdrive the Vit A Plus a little beyond the recommended dose.
Yeah, that's what I use. I ramped the Vit A up to once a week for about a month but I've dialed back to once or twice a month since; I'm not worried about overdosing based on posts by Ed, but they were getting enough Calcium Plus by my estimation so I used it as a booster for a short period before scaling back. Their diet is also pretty diverse so I'm of the opinion that gut-loading the diverse prey has helped in the nutrition department.

Obviously one of the real litmus tests will be viable metapmorphs.


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Originally Posted by Encyclia View Post
I just take the breeding hut out. That seems to be adequate to slow mine down. I am also doing that in the Fall when the temps are starting to get cool at night, too, so it maybe a combination of no hut and cool temps.

Good luck!

Mark
Thanks, I should be okay to have slightly cooler temperatures by Fall, but as mentioned, they almost never use the hut so I'm banking on lower food availability to get them to chill out.

I recently picked up a group of 4-year old Mints. They're proven but I've only had them weeks, so I don't expect to see eggs until they're really settled in. I was told they were a bit sporadic so we'll see. The Blackfoots have me very busy anyway.
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