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Old 07-10-2011, 12:45 AM
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Default Need help deciding on a frog.

I would like suggestions on a dart frog species that would actually use my entire 40 breeder.

I'd like something that is a little more bold and is willing to come out more instead of hiding, but also uses the background i'm planning on making.
There wont be much traffic in the room since the tank is in my bedroom, if that helps with anything

I haven't built the tank yet, i'm looking for suggestions on frogs first, then will build a background around that frog.

Not sure if this matters, but i will be using live plants with a T5HO fixture and 6700k bulbs. Don't know if it's too bright for some frogs, I'm just taking down my fish tank and that's the light I have for it currently. Any suggestions on a change in light if i need one will be appreciated too.
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Hey Bowser, I am going to take a stab at this in spite of the fact that I am new here as well.

Operating under the assumption that you are new dart frogs since you posted here, it is very difficult for someone to make recommendations. There are just so many variables. From what I have seen, it's far easier for the members to make suggestions once they have a feel for your level of knowledge and see what PDF's you keep. One person's favorite is another person's disappointment.

I read the care sheets found here...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/

Every one of them, even those that I had no business keeping. Once I ran through those identified as great starters, I did a search to learn everything I could about each.

You can also go here as it is extremely insightful when trying to get a feel for different species/morphs.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/species/

A 40 is a very nice home. Be sure to post up a build thread once you make a decision.
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Alright, i'll read about it and actually post a build of me doing it
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:11 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Hi Bowser,

You should try to meet-up with some froggers in your area and get to see a lot of different frogs in person. Knowing local breeders will help you immeasurably in the long run (and could be the place you get your first frogs from).

I started with D. leucomelas and they are still a great favorite. They are extremely active all day long and use all of the 55 gallon I have my pairs in. They have a great little call and are about as bold as they get. They are also VERY hardy and forgiving of some of the mistakes we all make as newcomers to the dart frog hobby.

Good luck which ever species you choose, Richard.
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:35 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Is there a place where I can search for local froggers? I'm located in Minnesota and maybe i'm just not looking hard enough, but I only know of one place that actually sells dart frogs around here and they only get them in if you order them in.

I read about that species, and read that they have a really loud call. How far away would you say you can hear it from?

I've heard about making a take fruit fly proof also, I have a glass lid that fits over my tank, Is that enough?
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Old 07-10-2011, 04:47 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

I would also suggest Leucs, they are really a beautiful frog with lots of personality, plus they are very resonably priced.
Terribilis would also be nice and bold but they are not tolerant of high temps, which can be an issue if you are new to the hobby.
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Is there a place where I can search for local froggers? I'm located in Minnesota and maybe i'm just not looking hard enough, but I only know of one place that actually sells dart frogs around here and they only get them in if you order them in.

I read about that species, and read that they have a really loud call. How far away would you say you can hear it from?

I've heard about making a take fruit fly proof also, I have a glass lid that fits over my tank, Is that enough?
There is a regional section which you can find here:

MidWest - Dendroboard

Depending on where you live, it can be tough to find local froggers.I live in a little town. The closest people to me that I found are 3-4 hours away. Looks like I will be doing a little road trip.

Be sure to go to your User CP and list your city and state. That way people will see where you are from when you post and may reach out to help or invite you over.

You can also watch for shows in your region. Lots of people show up there and you may be able to make some contacts. Be careful at the shows. Unleass your tank is completely set up and established, it's far too easy for we new folks to fall in love with something and drag it home when we aren't yet prepared to care for it.

As for purchasing, I would be uncomfortable purchasing from a local shop unless you know where the stock is coming from and are clear that the owners have the knowledge and experience to get them acclimated and settled.

I would lean toward hobbyist breeders or breeders for purchases. Experienced hobbyist/breeders are the best IMHO. They are selling you THEIR CHILDREN and will be able to tell you everything about them. They usually have excellent prices and will do everything in their power to get the frogs to you safely. Same thing for many of the breeders. Most of them became breeders because they were really good hobbyists. If you watch the classifieds here, you can good a good feel for who regularly has stock.

Glass tops are highly recommended. Not so much for keeping fruit flies in. More for humidity retention. In addition, most of the flies are small and love to go on walkabouts. Any small gaps can be sealed with fiberglass screen or weed cloth depending on the application.

I have no experience with Leucs yet. I wont be getting mine for about two to three weeks, give or take. I have yet to read a post where people actually complained the Leucs were keeping them up at night. They typically call during the day. While they can be vocal, I can't imagine they sound like a Howler Monkey !

Keep reading, keep researching and keep asking questions !
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Alright! I updated my User CP to show my location

The last show in MN that i've found for reptiles was last year, and it looks like there's no show for them this year in MN ( I'm still in highschool without a license so going out of state for a reptile show is out of the question :P )

I've been reading about leucs and they seem to be perfect for me! I still can't find out how loud they are. The problem isnt them keeping me up at night, it's them being annoying to the rest of the family during the day while i'm at school haha
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

In a closed terrarium, they are not loud at all. Just a little background music for the family!
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Old 07-10-2011, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Alright! Thanks! Another question, I'm making a background using great stuff, then putting grout on it and then painting it. Is there anything in paints that i should avoid in using? I Have some paints that came in a tube ( i used it to make Tshirts ) that seem like it'd be good but i want to make sure i don't use paint that will kill the frogs i eventually want to put into the vivarium.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Hey Bowser, thanks to you I ran across an old thread and found 2 people down in Knoxville! You helped me and didn't even know it.

I don't know anything about paint. The Exo Terra stock backgrounds are painted so there has to be some type of paint that works.

Be sure to rough the surface of the GS foam to knock down the shiny for adhesion.
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Old 07-10-2011, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

I'm going to just make the GS into the general shape i want it, and cut it so that i get the shape that I want and then put grout on it, and then paint it. It seems to work very well for some people and i like the look it creates. They never really say which paint they use, and i'm hesitant to just use any paint because there might be a chemical that's toxic to a frog but fine for us that i don't know about. since I don't know much about frogs

Glad you found 2 people! I actually hunted someone down in minnesota that's pretty close but they're currently rebuilding their frogs :P they DID help me find someone who might have some E.Anthonyi just looking for someone who has Leucs.. lol
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

leucs aren't loud, but audible. In your bedroom, they would easily wake you up. Our male calls every morning as the sun comes up. Ours can be heard from as much as probably 20 feet or more away from the tank, and it has an all glass lid. I would get a pair of tincs, or a group of auratus. They will use the whole tank, and they won't wake you up!
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Do they call constantly throughout the day? That's more of the problem, I'd actually like to be woken up to them It'd be really nice haha
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Yeah. Pretty much any mature male frog is going to call off and on throughout the day.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Do they call constantly throughout the day? That's more of the problem, I'd actually like to be woken up to them It'd be really nice haha
Yeah, it's not constant, but mine seem to call frequently early in the morning (like 5:30-7:30 AM), and then randomly throughout the day......
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Do they call constantly throughout the day? That's more of the problem, I'd actually like to be woken up to them It'd be really nice haha
I know exactly what your saying. I have a pair of imitators and a group of intermedius in my room that call back and forth. I find their calling relaxing, it's actually put me to sleep haha
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

So i'm still wondering if there are paints i should avoid using in vivariums. I want to start my build soon but i want to get supplies all bought before i start :P
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Old 07-12-2011, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

I agree with the general consensus that leucs would be the best fit. I have some azureus, and if there is a bug above their heads they'll usually just stare at it instead of climbing up to get them.

Also, a good way of dealing with noise in the morning is shifting when the "sun" comes up. My vivs lights are on a timer to be on from 11am-11pm so that I get to enjoy my frogs when I come home from work.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:30 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

I can probably shift it to whatever i want then :P my room is dark until the fish tanks turn on.
I guess i'll just have to see how loud they are and see when I want the lights on.
Do you think a computer screen next to the tank at night would cause them to call? I sometimes stay up until around 4AM doing homework and if its really loud i wouldn't want to keep anyone in my family up.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Luecs are what I started out with. My vivarium is fruitflyproof and I can hardly hear him when the doors to my viv are shut. So I think it depends on how light a sleeper you are. Definately doesn't wake me up! As far as the paint is concerned, unfortunately I don't have an answer for you. Just wanted to give the luecs some more props!
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Come across another question! Called my LFS (They sell reptiles too) and asked them what substrate they would use to keep frogs, and they said they used shredded coconut fiber, and long leaf sphagnum moss. Should I just use this combo or what else should i add in? I'm going to making a false bottom, but have no experience with substrates to use. I'd like to keep things a little bit on the cheaper side if possible. Looked on a website that sells ABG mix and they were selling 8 quarts of it for 12 bucks. How much would i need to cover a 40 breeder adequately + a 10 gallon? ( 10 gallon is a quarantine tank i'm planning on setting up, if i don't need substrate in this let me know )
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

You can make an ABG type mix with locally bought stuff- there might be recipes on here if you search. You can make a nice simple substrate out of coco-fiber/peat moss, sphagnum moss, and orchid bark (all of which are available at Lowe's or Home Depot). Then cover it up with a nice layer of leaf litter and you are good to go.
P.S. I like leucs. Mine call in the morning (but not too early, usually right as the lights come on) a lot and then sometimes throughout the day. I've never heard them call more than an hour after lights out. Mine are not annoyingly loud; it's a nice call and a TV/ dishwasher/ any appliance could drown out their sound. If everything else is quiet, though, I would say I could hear them about 20 feet away with an all glass lid and tank.
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Thanks alot! Another question is how many cultures of fruitflies should i culture for just 2 leucs? I'm planning on culturing them about a week or two before i get them so they have enough food.

I'll be starting my build of the tank closer towards winter when i have more time to actually build things, and such. Just need to make sure i plan everything out before I do anything.

So far the plan is:
1.to empty out the tank and get it cleaned out completely. Currently has live plants in there only, need to get those sold off and then i'll be ready to start the build
2. Make a background out of great stuff. Planning on making rocks out of great stuff and coating it in grout, i've heard you had to cure it, does anyone know how to cure it and how long it takes to cure?
3. Paint the background and fake rocks
4. Make False bottom
5. Add in substrate ( will probably use that mixture that i can find at home depot/lowes to be honest )
6. Find plants ( this will probably be hard since i'm planning on buying them in the winter :l ) and plant them
7. Seed with springtails ( found someone who's willing to sell me a culture of them for around 5 bucks, sounds like a good deal to me. They live nearby me so i'm sure the springtails won't die on the drive back to my house right? haha )
8. Install misting system* *This step is optional, depends on if I have enough money haha*
9. Culture fruitflies
10. Buy leucs
11. Quarantine for a couple of weeks
12. Introduce into tank

Does this sound good? am i missing anything? this is how it's going through my head, hopefully i'm not missing anything haha
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Welcome, Bowser! Here are just a few thoughts I've had while reading your posts...

---If calling might be a problem for you or your family, you may just want to consider tincs. They are bold and fairly easy to care for, come in many different morphs/colors and their calls are barely noticeable unless you're close to the tank.

---You may want to also sterilize your tank once its tore down. Fill it to the top with a 10:1 (water:bleach) solution and let it sit for a while. Then rinse, rinse, rinse!

---It would be much easier if you build your false bottom first and then build your background above it. Many people have made mistakes and found that they couldn't get their false bottoms in after their background was completed.

---I've found that Dry-Lok works very well for backgrounds made from styrofoam or great stuff (instead of grout). It can be colored using regular acrylic paint or Quikrete cement color. Just wait for it to completely dry and I also wait for the small amount of "smell" that it has to go away before planting and introducing frogs.

Anyhow...you've got a good start on frogging by coming here. Lots of great information and wonderful people who will be glad to help you figure it all out. I'm sure, no matter which frogs you choose...you'll fall in love! Best wishes!
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Thanks alot for the tips! I don't plan on making the background the regular way, wanted to make it piece by piece. so i can carve out the rocks one at a time and know how they'll look instead of working inside the tank.
does drylok give the rock-look like the grout does? I love the look of the grout based on pictures, havent seen any coated with drylok yet.

I was just wondering if they will make a huge noise, like, louder than my alarm clock haha but from the sounds of it, they should be fine
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Old 08-16-2011, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Need help deciding on a frog.

Hey Bowser! Nice to see another Minnesotan. I'm glad you are getting into the hobby it is so magical.

some thoughts:
I know a couple local breeders, if you are interested pm me we can talk. you may already have contact with 1 of them.

There is a reptile expo THIS Sunday, in bloomington, right up your alley! I know for sure one of the vendors there will be reptilesetcetera, who do tons of dartfrog and treefrog stuff. I'm planning on going, we could meet up there even.

Good luck with the tank!
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