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Old 10-12-2010, 07:00 AM
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Default Well, here goes nothing...

So I've been wanting frogs for some time now, and I joined this site awhile back (wow exactly a year ago this month) and started doing some research and some purchasing to get going and then life happened. Well, here I am back, and ready to take off with my setup!

Here's what I have for a tank. I have the Zoo Med Naturalistic Terrarium measuring 12x12x18. Looking at 1-3 leuc's (if possible) small pond, hard sca[e if I can figure it out, and TONS of plants. I'm needing help..where to begin, what to use..I get different answers from different research so I've decided to come back to the people who do it for the hobby, and not the people out to make money Be gentle, I know I still have a lot of work to do, but I'm ready. Working only part time, with some extra income from fish/invert breeding.

I have a thing for viney plants, so if someone could help me figure out how to make small "cups" for the back wall that suction cup on, or ones I can permanently attach to the back wall for vine plants, and some ideas for how to lay it out..I'd like a SMALL water feature...not a water fall, maybe letter the water run down part of the back wall. and maybe someone can tell me the best/easiest/most cost effective way to make hard scape for the back walls. A general list of materials would be good too..I had one, and got a new laptop cause the other one decided that after 1 semester in college of papers that it served it's purpose...When it comes to plants, if you could post or link to pictures, that'd be great..aquatic plants, I'm pretty decent on, now to throw more in there, take it easy on me

Any and all help is appreciated
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Well, here goes nothing...

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Originally Posted by GaryF View Post
So I've been wanting frogs for some time now, and I joined this site awhile back (wow exactly a year ago this month) and started doing some research and some purchasing to get going and then life happened. Well, here I am back, and ready to take off with my setup!

Here's what I have for a tank. I have the Zoo Med Naturalistic Terrarium measuring 12x12x18. Looking at 1-3 leuc's (if possible) small pond, hard sca[e if I can figure it out, and TONS of plants. I'm needing help..where to begin, what to use..I get different answers from different research so I've decided to come back to the people who do it for the hobby, and not the people out to make money Be gentle, I know I still have a lot of work to do, but I'm ready. Working only part time, with some extra income from fish/invert breeding.

I have a thing for viney plants, so if someone could help me figure out how to make small "cups" for the back wall that suction cup on, or ones I can permanently attach to the back wall for vine plants, and some ideas for how to lay it out..I'd like a SMALL water feature...not a water fall, maybe letter the water run down part of the back wall. and maybe someone can tell me the best/easiest/most cost effective way to make hard scape for the back walls. A general list of materials would be good too..I had one, and got a new laptop cause the other one decided that after 1 semester in college of papers that it served it's purpose...When it comes to plants, if you could post or link to pictures, that'd be great..aquatic plants, I'm pretty decent on, now to throw more in there, take it easy on me

Any and all help is appreciated
a 12x12x18 won't be good for Leucs. Its too small, plus you're going to lose more ground space with a pond. A pair of thumbs would be the only thing you can really put in that
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: Well, here goes nothing...

With Leucs - id go with a 29 gallon.

They def won't work in a 12x18 - especially if your planning a pond too
Personally I like the 12x18 a lot but only for thumb 1.1 pairs
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Well, here goes nothing...

Be aware that even a small drip wall in the back of a 12x12x18 will not be small. There just isn't enough ground space for one. I put one on mine, background is gs with mopani wood in it. Just a drip wall, nothing fancy. It totally soaked the substrate completely and I had to take water out continually because misting adds to the water level. Mine runs off of an external filter/pump, I never put the pump in viv, that's just asking for trouble. I ended up pulling all of the substrate and replacing it with large gravel. I don't let the water level get hog enough to create pools larger than what a thumbnail could sit and soak its butt in. Which the 2 imis do in there on occasion. Terribly funny to watch. I have a lot of potted plants build into the background and it's in that soil that I seed the springs. It's not what I intended bug like I said, 12x12x18 is really hard to put a water feature into. I also wouln't put more than 1:1 thumbnails in that size tank. FWIW though it's one of my fav sized tanks. I'm a thumbnail keeper though so that makes it easier.
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Old 10-12-2010, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Well, here goes nothing...

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Originally Posted by jeffr View Post
a 12x12x18 won't be good for Leucs. Its too small, plus you're going to lose more ground space with a pond. A pair of thumbs would be the only thing you can really put in that
This is not true. I have bred leucomelas as well as quite a few other dendrobatids in rubbermaid containers that are smaller than this. I have done this both professionally as a zookeeper of the third largest herp collection in the US as well as personally. I'm not saying this to brag only to add credibility to my statement. While I do agree that "bigger is better" it is not a necessity.
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:47 PM
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This is not true. I have bred leucomelas as well as quite a few other dendrobatids in rubbermaid containers that are smaller than this. I have done this both professionally as a zookeeper of the third largest herp collection in the US as well as personally. I'm not saying this to brag only to add credibility to my statement. While I do agree that "bigger is better" it is not a necessity.
Probably true, but as you said you are/were a zookeeper. Would you recommend it to a beginner with zero experience with dendros? I wouldn't.
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Old 10-12-2010, 04:51 PM
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Well, I appreciate the honesty, but again, everyone only told me "Leuc's wont work" and didn't answer any of my other questions...back to researching on my own.
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Old 10-12-2010, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Well, here goes nothing...

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Well, I appreciate the honesty, but again, everyone only told me "Leuc's wont work" and didn't answer any of my other questions...back to researching on my own.
The topics you asked about have been covered extensively, if you click under each forum heading (Beginner Discussion and Plants sections for your particular questions) and look at each "Sticky" thread near the top, they'll have the answers you're looking for without too much searching.

Also, try searching for "DIY background," "great stuff build," or "good viv plants." The search feature here is really helpful, you just have to give it somewhere to start and you'll find what you're looking for in the first thread or two. Hope that helps, and if you have any specific questions you can't find answers to, we're happy to help.
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Old 10-12-2010, 05:15 PM
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I didnt say I was going to be breeding...or at least I don't think I did...if I can only do one in there, I will...I have no intentions in breeding these guys, they just interest me and I wanted to have 1 or 2.
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Old 10-12-2010, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: Well, here goes nothing...

"Tons" of plants won't fit in there, you'll see how small it gets pretty fast once you start scaping it, especially taking up space with a water feature - remember, it's basically a 10 gallon tank.

I also heard of crazy examples like blue jeans breeding in 8 gallon containers, but really there's no reason to add the stress of frogs being stuck together so closely with no choice of escape from each other if you don't have to, unless you're just growing out froglets, that size is ok for a pair of thumbs.
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Old 10-13-2010, 04:21 AM
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Thread can be closed. I've gone back to google for my information.
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Old 10-13-2010, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Well, here goes nothing...

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Probably true, but as you said you are/were a zookeeper. Would you recommend it to a beginner with zero experience with dendros? I wouldn't.
Not to be nitpicky but it is definitely true not probably. I would in fact be OK with recommending this size tank to house a pair of leucomelas to a beginner as long as they had a grasp on the other variables of dendobatid care. But again, bigger is always better...but not necessary.
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