Removing Vent Tadpoles from the Eggs... necessary? - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Dart Frogs > Beginner Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise

Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2005, 10:07 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 306
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Removing Vent Tadpoles from the Eggs... necessary?

I have a few tadpoles stuggling pretty hard to get out of the egg. Should I help them out? If so, a couple questions...

1) how can I be reassured that they "are ready" to come out, and not just ansy?

2) how do I get them out of the egg without hurting them?

3) any other advice?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2005, 10:33 PM
Dane's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,415
Thanks: 143
Thanked 227 Times in 174 Posts
Default

I believe that 15-16 days is the minimum that the tads should stay in the eggs. If you're certain that they're ready to come out, you can cut the egg carefully with a razor and spread the opening to allow the tad to wiggle itself out.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2005, 10:54 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 306
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

thanks. they are easily 15-16 days old. I will start timing them though to get a better idea.

will they come out on their own though? does this lessen the success rate if they do that?

also, in the wild, do the parents open the eggs up or is it done naturally?
Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2005, 11:11 PM
Dane's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,415
Thanks: 143
Thanked 227 Times in 174 Posts
Default

I don't think so. In the wild they either make it or they don't. I believe parental care is limited to transportation and food (in facilitative and obligate egg feeders).
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2005, 11:16 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 306
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

so is the removal from the egg actually beneficial in any way? maybe makes them stronger earlier on?
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2005, 11:37 PM
Dane's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,415
Thanks: 143
Thanked 227 Times in 174 Posts
Default

No, I would think that premature removal would lead to stunting or death.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2005, 11:40 PM
Mantellaprince20's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,415
Thanks: 3
Thanked 58 Times in 41 Posts
Default

what makes you think they are ready in the first place? I have seen many of my mantella eggs wriggling around in side of their eggs for days, but they definitely are not ready to come out. As long as you have kept the eggs very moist, then they should be able to easily break free from them when the time comes. If they had dried out a bit, then I would definitely help them out as the egg will probably be a little bit tougher. ALso, I don't think helping them would be harmful to them in the future. I ahd a good reason why I thought this, but my mind is blank right now :roll: maybe I will htink of it later,

Ed Parker
__________________
mantella - ranitomeya - oophaga - ameerega - dendrobates
Don't just collect, CONNECT
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2005, 11:47 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 306
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I will let them sit longer then. i am in no rush, just making sure I dont screw up I have 9 tads ready to hatch, so screwing up would be bad.

right now I have them still in the film canister they were laid in, but have it laying horizontal in a shallow fruitfly-style container with just enough water to cover about 3/4 of the eggs.

i am working 14-16 hour days lately, so any more work than that is pretty much impossible. however, any advice on doing anything better/extra is welcomed my main point is that it will be hard if not impossible to keep the humidty up in there. if there is an easy way to help that out, then I am all ears!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2005, 12:41 AM
Scott's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 8,422
Blog Entries: 6
Thanks: 104
Thanked 427 Times in 250 Posts
Default

At that age you can start adding a little more water. The extra water helps to start breaking up the egg gel a bit.

s
__________________
Join the Southwest Frog Group FB Page!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2005, 12:44 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 306
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

think the water can even go over the top of the eggs? I dont think they will float since they are still stuck to the cansiter. I could break them loose if necessary though.

so, to rephrase the above... can/will they float safely?
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2005, 12:45 AM
Scott's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 8,422
Blog Entries: 6
Thanks: 104
Thanked 427 Times in 250 Posts
Default

I don't think it's a problem at that age.

I've had them float and do fine...

s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spar
... so, to rephrase the above... can/will they float safely?
__________________
Join the Southwest Frog Group FB Page!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2005, 03:05 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Washington, DC USA
Posts: 297
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I think I read in the recently released Professional Breeders Series that male vents often thrash their rear legs when tending eggs and this may aid in liberating tadpoles from the egg sac.

With my vent eggs/tadpoles, if I see that the fine veins near the gill slits are gone, then I will help them break out of the egg sacs. I have my eggs fully submerged and often there is algae growing over the exterior of egg masses, so I wonder if this further complicates their ability to break out on their own. I do on occassion (a combination of work schedule and procrastination) allow the tadpoles to break out on their own - not all make it out.

Why not try a little experiment and split the clutch and assist one half and let the other half fend for itself.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2005, 04:37 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Washington, DC USA
Posts: 297
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I forgot to mention my method of removal. I have a pair of fine tipped, pointed tweezers which I use. I pinch the ends of the tweezer together and then insert this into the egg (careful not to spear the tadpole). Once the tweezer tip is inside the egg, I gently release my grip and allow the tweezers ends to separate, thereby splitting open the egg which creates a big hole for the tadpole to fit through. I then try and catch one of the edges of the split egg and gently pull up, which usually allows the tadpoles to slide out of the egg case.

At this point the tadpoles are left alone for several days. After several days they are usually set up in separate glass baby food jars. The jars would have been prepared ahead of time with the water I use and also a piece of oak leaf that has soaked inside the container for a few days. The dead oak leaf releases some tanins which helps to keep fungus at bay. I also try to add a bit of water from the container holding the eggs to the new tadpole container. After the tadpole is in the new glass jar, I add a tiny pinch of food and watch for the green spirals (digested and then expelled tadpole food) before I add more food.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2005, 05:18 PM
dmartin72's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,137
Thanks: 37
Thanked 28 Times in 26 Posts
Default

Good stuff Yuri! This is starting to sound like surgery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri
I forgot to mention my method of removal. I have a pair of fine tipped, pointed tweezers which I use. I pinch the ends of the tweezer together and then insert this into the egg (careful not to spear the tadpole). Once the tweezer tip is inside the egg, I gently release my grip and allow the tweezers ends to separate, thereby splitting open the egg which creates a big hole for the tadpole to fit through. I then try and catch one of the edges of the split egg and gently pull up, which usually allows the tadpoles to slide out of the egg case.

At this point the tadpoles are left alone for several days. After several days they are usually set up in separate glass baby food jars. The jars would have been prepared ahead of time with the water I use and also a piece of oak leaf that has soaked inside the container for a few days. The dead oak leaf releases some tanins which helps to keep fungus at bay. I also try to add a bit of water from the container holding the eggs to the new tadpole container. After the tadpole is in the new glass jar, I add a tiny pinch of food and watch for the green spirals (digested and then expelled tadpole food) before I add more food.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2005, 05:29 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My vents lay eggs with extremely thick egg casings, and if they get a little dry, they become almost impermeable to tadpoles. I rarely extricate tads, but if they no longer have external gills and the eggs start to cloud up, I use a razor blade to cut the casing open. If you are careful and avoid the tads tail, you can almost 1/2 the casing. Be very careful though, since puncturing the casing may cause it to collapse around the tad and prevent them from moving and obtaining oxygen and food. Its a delicate process and should only be done when absolutely necessary, but I have raised many tads, which were manually removed from their eggs, into healthy froglets.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2005, 09:41 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 306
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

As an update.. i had 2 dishes, one with 4 eggs, and one with 5.

I opened up all 4 of the one with 4 eggs and the tads are all doing great (did 1 3 days ago, and the other 3 2 days ago).

I left the 5 eggs to escape on their own, and so far 2 have done so. The other 3 tads are still rambunxious (sp?) inside their eggs, so I will give them more time.

Therefore, I guess either way seems to work well.

As for the cutting the tads out of the egg. I tried several approaches. I first tried using a razor-blade... unsucessful...
then tried ripping the egg apart with needlenose pliers and tweezers combined... got the tad out but took too long... t
hen I tried the 2 tweezers idea, and absolutely worked great! takes about 5-10 seconds per egg, and they get out with hardly any hard/fast movements knocking them around. I just punctured the egg (almost exactly in the center, and obviously not touching the tad) and squeezed with one, and then inserted the 2nd pair of tweezers into the hole created by the other tweezers (while still pinching with the 1st pair). When the 2nd pair of tweezers opened up, it pulled the egg clearly away from the tad, and I just took the egg out with the 1st pair as they were still pinching anyway. Basically exactly the way one of the posts in this thread was describing.

Anyway, I now have 6 Tad's out and alive. So hopefully I can get through this next stage fine

Thanks for all the help!
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2005, 12:33 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: WA
Posts: 649
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I keep a couple tools on hand for tad extracting. Periodically I use a razor, but my favorite tools are a few kinds of dental probes. Some have hooks and some have cutting edges on the hook portion. You really need to find the one for your liking. Once you have done that, aiding tads in their egg exiting can be fairly quick. I use two, one to hold the egg and one to make incisions. The incision I try to make in front of the tad's head. Then I hook the the egg near the tads tail and pull slowly. Many time the tad propels itself right out of the egg.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ideas for vent tadpoles? hyla23 Breeding, Eggs & Tadpoles 3 07-05-2008 07:31 PM
vent eggs naja_naja Breeding, Eggs & Tadpoles 4 09-09-2007 11:05 PM
removing eggs from deep in broms bellerophon Breeding, Eggs & Tadpoles 4 07-26-2007 04:17 PM
T&B auratus eggs & tadpoles Detrick105 Breeding, Eggs & Tadpoles 12 04-29-2007 04:25 AM
Raising multiple vent tadpoles rjmarchisi General Discussion 8 10-29-2004 02:02 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.