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Old 06-23-2020, 02:30 AM
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Default remineralising Ro waters and itís effects on vitamins and minerals

Theres Something that has come to my attention regarding ro water and dart frog keeping, being someone who keeps freshwater planted Aquariums when we use Ro water we remineralise it as itís far to pure and nothing really would live or grow in this pure water, now having read a few posts it seems some people here do not add anything back to the water when misting? Seeing as frogs skin is permeable wouldnít the pure Ro be harmful as it is too fish and plant?

I guess to summarise my question is what do you add to your Ro water if you add anything all?
If you do not add anything why not?
Is it because frogs already receive their required supplements from dusting?
If so what about plants they wouldnít they not be able to survive?
as to me a beautiful terrarium is as important as healthy frogs.
Thanks.

Last edited by PumsAndThumbs; 06-23-2020 at 02:47 AM.
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Old 06-23-2020, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: remineralising Ro waters and itís effects on vitamins and minerals

Unless I'm mistaken, RO will take out the vast majority of water "impurities", but not 100%; for that you need something like distillation or an ion resin.

Regardless, as far as frogs are concerned, distilled/RO/DI is pretty much the same. Misting with it is harmless to the frogs. And to quickly answer your questions:
-You want RO/pure water for misting, so that mineral deposits won't occur on your glass
-Dart frogs can't receive significant nutrients/minerals from misting water; you will need to supplement their food with a high quality powder like repashy's Cal+
-The plants will also be fine with RO water. Some plants like orchids don't do well without "pure" water. The plants will be fertilized with frog poop.
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Old 06-23-2020, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: remineralising Ro waters and itís effects on vitamins and minerals

In aquariums we remineralize water for plants and fish because they are constantly submersed in the water and need to get their nutrients from it. Plants in a vivarium have access to the atmosphere and also whatever is in our substrate. This is significantly more nutrients than what is found in any aquarium because we don't have to worry about algae the same way in vivariums as we do in aquariums. In many many ways a vivarium is much easier to deal with than an aquarium.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: remineralising Ro waters and itís effects on vitamins and minerals

Thank you for your comments, however I have read numerous amphibian husbandry articles which state that pure Ro water can be harmful to amphibians.
Such as this:
http://www.ebd.csic.es/documents/240...6-7e6310b842d3

To quote the above article:

“RO water is free of solutes and is purer than what can be tolerated by most amphibians. Its high purity (low level of solutes) means that in an attempt to reach osmotic equilibrium, water will move from the relatively pure surrounding water into the body tissues of an amphibian, which contain higher concentrations of solutes. Over time, this may result in edemic (bloated) animals and kidney problems. To compensate for the water’s purity, salts and minerals should be added back to the RO water to create a solution that is isotonic with amphibians.”

The article does also list a specific reconstituted RO recipe for amphibians.


Of course I’m not advocating to stop dusting and using remineralised RO water, just that it surely can not have not have negative effects to the frogs if one follows such recipes..

Last edited by PumsAndThumbs; 06-25-2020 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: remineralising Ro waters and itís effects on vitamins and minerals

Quote:
Originally Posted by minorhero View Post
In aquariums we remineralize water for plants and fish because they are constantly submersed in the water and need to get their nutrients from it. Plants in a vivarium have access to the atmosphere and also whatever is in our substrate. This is significantly more nutrients than what is found in any aquarium because we don't have to worry about algae the same way in vivariums as we do in aquariums. In many many ways a vivarium is much easier to deal with than an aquarium.
But in planted aquariums we tend to use a very nutrient Rich soil such as ADA aqua soil and we Fertilizer the aquarium with liquid Fertilizer Daily such as the Estimative index method which over doses nutrients in order to make sure enough is always a available.

Last edited by PumsAndThumbs; 06-25-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: remineralising Ro waters and itís effects on vitamins and minerals

I think that the article is talking about amphibians broadly, many of whom hang out in a pool of water for long periods of time. This is not true of dart frogs. Notice later in the same article:

"Pure RO (un-reconstituted) water is ideal for misting systems for display tanks where unsightly mineral deposits are not desired. However, inside the enclosure other sources (pools) of balanced water need to be accessible to animals to prevent osmotic imbalance within their bodies."

Dart frogs don't even need pools of water at all (in spite of what seemingly every single new dart frog keeper on this board thinks and sometimes defends vociferously), and they don't typically use them to hang out in for long periods of time (unless something is wrong). Also, as soon as that RO water comes out of the misting nozzles, it hits a surface and starts to pick up minerals that carry down to the drainage layer. So, in a proper dart frog setup, the frogs only briefly come into contact with the RO water immediately following a mist and that water evaporates off of them pretty quickly (another reason not to have your tanks at 100% humidity!).

I will point you to one of a lot of threads on the subject. Ed's comments are very helpful and most people that have been around here a while hold Ed's posts in high regard.

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...iscussion.html

Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumsAndThumbs View Post
Thank you for your comments, however I have read numerous amphibian husbandry articles which state that pure Ro water can be harmful to amphibians.
Such as this:
http://www.ebd.csic.es/documents/240...6-7e6310b842d3

To quote the above article:

“RO water is free of solutes and is purer than what can be tolerated by most amphibians. Its high purity (low level of solutes) means that in an attempt to reach osmotic equilibrium, water will move from the relatively pure surrounding water into the body tissues of an amphibian, which contain higher concentrations of solutes. Over time, this may result in edemic (bloated) animals and kidney problems. To compensate for the water’s purity, salts and minerals should be added back to the RO water to create a solution that is isotonic with amphibians.”

The article does also list a specific reconstituted RO recipe for amphibians.


Of course I’m not advocating to stop dusting and using remineralised RO water, just that it surely can not have not have negative effects to the frogs if one follows such recipes..

Last edited by Encyclia; 06-25-2020 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: remineralising Ro waters and itís effects on vitamins and minerals

Quote:
Originally Posted by PumsAndThumbs View Post
Thank you for your comments, however I have read numerous amphibian husbandry articles which state that pure Ro water can be harmful to amphibians.
Such as this:
http://www.ebd.csic.es/documents/240...6-7e6310b842d3
I have not read the whole article, but the section you quote seems to conflate the care of aquatic and terrestrial amphibians, which isn't useful.

Surface water (ponds, rivers, terrestrial puddles) is often relatively high in dissolved minerals, and there are reasons, as noted above, to simulate that in captivity using remineralized RO water. Rainwater is not high in dissolved minerals, and there are reasons, as noted above, to simulate that in captivity using RO water.

So, RO makes great misting water, while remineralized RO makes great water for raising tads of those species that are deposited in terrestrial bodies of water.
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Old 06-25-2020, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: remineralising Ro waters and itís effects on vitamins and minerals

This was better said, but Ha! got in there just before you, John! Don't feel too bad, CO is an hour ahead of you ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue View Post
I have not read the whole article, but the section you quote seems to conflate the care of aquatic and terrestrial amphibians, which isn't useful.

Surface water (ponds, rivers, terrestrial puddles) is often relatively high in dissolved minerals, and there are reasons, as noted above, to simulate that in captivity using remineralized RO water. Rainwater is not high in dissolved minerals, and there are reasons, as noted above, to simulate that in captivity using RO water.

So, RO makes great misting water, while remineralized RO makes great water for raising tads of those species that are deposited in terrestrial bodies of water.
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