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  • 3 Post By thedudeabides
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:34 PM
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Default darts at petco

I was recently at petco picking up some supplies and saw a couple of auratus-green and black and blue and black in the same enclosure just sitting in front of a container that used to have fruit flies, just patiently waiting for something to come out of the hole. Unfortunately there were no fruit flies and only a few larva crawling around the inside. It was a pretty sad sight....I almost bought them just so I an feed them but ended up walking away..Felt bad about that too.
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

Unfortunately if you buy them to give them a good home that encourages the store to buy more. As hard as it might be, best to just walk away.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

Nothing gets better by walking away. It definitely doesn't relieve the suffering of the individual frog that fate placed you - a knowledgable dendro person - in your path.

In theory not buying the frog makes superficial sense, but Helping, is a case by case intimate act. If you dont buy the frog, petco will replace when it dies or is bought by someone who will extend its suffering and kill it.

Walking away versus saving the frog. Not buying the frog wont make a micro dent in pet cos mega $ budget. They actually include Mortality as a Given in their budget. Live stock is considered Window Dressing, and their care is strictly budgeted to an austere minimum.

I know this from managing the herp dept of an independent animal store, that did things differently than most retail shops. I frequently had on hire young people who loved animals and wanted to work with them but leftpet co because of store practices. I also created a niche to give consult and proper gear and environment supplies and set up support to people who acquired herps from petco, craigs list, and reptile shows.

if you want to truly help - Take photos of the frog, waiting heartbreakingly by the container, and YELP the PetCo, publishing the pics.

But by all means, Get that Frog.

Imagine how lucky that little guy will be.

It will be the Best.
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

Walked into a Petco once and saw medium crickets in a dart frog enclosure. I asked the employee about them and they commented on how the frogs don't seem to eat anything. I pointed out that dart frogs (azureus and leucs) don't eat crickets and then spent about 20 minutes talking to them about dart frog care. Fortunately, I haven't seen darts back at that specific store. To their credit, the employees seemed interested, but unfortunately had NO idea about habitat requirements OR feeding.
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:55 PM
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Petco itself tries to take adequate care of the frogs but lacks the ability to give employees the facilities to do so (therefore shouldn’t carry them). I have seen darts at more than one location that are severely under weight, some so small I’m amazed they are OTW at that size. Genetics aren’t the best either and I have seen a few likely hybrid tinctorius over the years as well. A shame they carry them still especially considering the huge variance in employee dedication and knowledge between locations. I would avoid purchasing frogs in an effort to not support future sales.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

You take Photos, discuss on social platforms and you Yelp them.

You dont just walk away. Anyone can do that.

Actually homing the animal does the most real good. Document your reasons and the animals shift into compassionate care.

Small change decisions with corporations dont make a microscopic sliver of difference.

But mindful critique + social media visual representation do. "walking away" does nothing.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

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Originally Posted by jskinner097 View Post
Petco itself tries to take adequate care of the frogs but lacks the ability to give employees the facilities to do so (therefore shouldnít carry them). I have seen darts at more than one location that are severely under weight, some so small Iím amazed they are OTW at that size. Genetics arenít the best either and I have seen a few likely hybrid tinctorius over the years as well. A shame they carry them still especially considering the huge variance in employee dedication and knowledge between locations. I would avoid purchasing frogs in an effort to not support future sales.
Huh? "Tries to take adequate care, but lacks the ability to give the employees the facilities to do so??

It doesnt lack the "Ability" it doesnt deem it of value.

Your admonish of purchasing frogs to not support future sales is uninformed. Dart frogs and other livestock are Window Dressing.Pet Co allots for all of them to possibly die before sale

It doesnt make a lick of difference to the corporation whether the livestock dies or is sold

Not "buying animals" has No Effect on Pet Cos bottom line.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: darts at petco

It makes no sense to buy supplies at pet co.

If you are going to "Walk Away" leave the products on the shelves.

Walk away from your shopping experience, the stuff you want. Dont go in there then.

But to buy supplies there because its convenient, but say dont rescue an animal doesnt add up.

Sometimes just doing the right thing is simple and right there begging in front of you to be done.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: darts at petco

Don't forget how many frogs die that are wild caught due to poor handling, and even many of the people who buy them don't take care of them properly, kinda like mantellas.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: darts at petco

I actually called them tonight, they close in 20 minutes, and spoke to the reptile guy. He told me he is there 4 times a week and makes sure they have containers WITH flies in them every time he works. I must have caught them on his day off. They have been there for 2.5- 3 weeks. For what itís worth, he did sound concerned. They were really tiny but stomach/ abdomen didnít look shrunken (if that is a thing in the frog hobby, it is for fish) Bottom line is if they sell them they get more, if they die they get more. I am out of town for a week but I will go back and check on them when I return and probably get them if still there. Iíd get them tomorrow but donít have anyone to feed them while Iím gone. For me, this is the best decision I can do.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jskinner097 View Post
Petco itself tries to take adequate care of the frogs but lacks the ability to give employees the facilities to do so (therefore shouldn’t carry them). I have seen darts at more than one location that are severely under weight, some so small I’m amazed they are OTW at that size. Genetics aren’t the best either and I have seen a few likely hybrid tinctorius over the years as well. A shame they carry them still especially considering the huge variance in employee dedication and knowledge between locations. I would avoid purchasing frogs in an effort to not support future sales.
Huh? "Tries to take adequate care, but lacks the ability to give the employees the facilities to do so??

It doesnt lack the "Ability" it doesnt deem it of value.

Your admonish of purchasing frogs to not support future sales is uninformed. Dart frogs and other livestock are Window Dressing.Pet Co allots for all of them to possibly die before sale

It doesnt make a lick of difference to the corporation whether the livestock dies or is sold

Not "buying animals" has No Effect on Pet Cos bottom line.
Purchasing the animals and “rescuing” them will only lead to more frogs being brought in to replenish stock, especially if they sell quickly. As horrible as it is, I think we can all agree that stores like Petco should not be carrying dart frogs. However, purchasing froglets on the verge of death in many cases encourages them to bring in more specimens. Large corporations frequently take inventory, shrink, and sales reports and purchasing frogs would lead the stores to believe that they should frequently order more stock. It is not a good situation by any means and causes conflict for us froggers who do not want to see animals suffer, but educating employees and reaching out to the company about its protocol will make a much bigger difference for the frogs, present and future, that will inevitably make their way through the establishment and onto this forum as they have in the past.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: darts at petco

Why knock someone for NOT buying an underfed, mislabeled, and overpriced pet store frog, when there are dozens, if not hundreds of reputable keepers/breeders with better quality and lower priced livestock? If you are like me, funds are limited, and I would rather support those making a real effort to establish healthy bloodlines and perpetuate these frogs for multiple generations. While Petco may not be financially effected by my choice to avoid their animals, a small but conscientious private breeder would be.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:07 AM
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Default Re: darts at petco

I wasnt knocking the OP.

If you read my posts I was stating the flip side of the usual advice.

I have spent many hours unpaid working to ease the living results of people who walk away. The things Ive seen have changed my mind about many things.

I think its okay to share an alternate view. I realize it was stated strongly. Its because there isnt anything I feel more strongly about.
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Old 02-21-2020, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

My Blue tincs are Petco rescues. I have a Sphynx and she loves going to petco because of all the attention she gets so when we get her food we bring her in a harness with us. I had been thinking about starting a Dart vivarium already and had been in contact with BioDude and Chase from Houston Frogs. So I was already prepared with some knowledge to start. I went in and saw the frogs and knew they had to be rescued by just the way the tank was setup and the humidity readings they were showing. They must not have been there very long because they were voracious eaters and were very plump. So that same day I bought the frogs and a quarantine setup. They stayed in there while I built the Viv and let it go through it's cycle. I've had them for a while now and they are doing FABULOUS. The rest of the frogs I have have now were sourced through hobbyist though.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

FFS stop buying frogs from Petco!

They don't give a shyte about them unless you buy them...then they will buy more.

Support local hobbyists instead
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

Then one shouldn't patronize petco at all, because its their dry stock that makes them so successful.

Every once in a while an individual must break form, to help another individual. Not an 'even if' but an 'especially' if the individual is suffering due to the interior ugliness of our kind.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

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Then one shouldn't patronize petco at all
This. This is the answer.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

We don't have to boycott a business outright just to encourage them not to continue to stock an item, in this case, dart frogs, that they are not handling responsibly. This isn't to say that I like Petco. I don't shop there. I am saying this because it can be applied broadly to other situations and businesses.

We can simply demonstrate that the item in question won't profit them. They don't care WHY we buy anything. If it sells, they restock. If it doesn't, they don't. We get what we pay for.

If we put our money in hobbyists who are doing the right thing, that will be the model that succeeds. If we give fiscal rewards to the entities who are doing it all wrong, that's the model we'll see replicated.

For that matter, not purchasing is not necessarily dooming an animal to death. If an animal takes too long to sell, or its health is declining, pet store employees sometimes find homes for the critters on the sly.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

Pet Co has snuffed out some of the best indie animal shops that have ever existed, turned them into dinosaurs.

Other places that are good, are struggling. Some been forced to change and not for the better.
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

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For that matter, not purchasing is not necessarily dooming an animal to death. If an animal takes too long to sell, or its health is declining, pet store employees sometimes find homes for the critters on the sly.
That's a great point. When I worked at an LFS, many, many fish went home with employees and were simply inventoried as dead. Not sure if corporate chain stores tolerate this behavior, though.
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Old 02-22-2020, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

I suspect it will be based on the management of a location. If the management of the location and employees feel a moral obligation to the animals to save them just before death, then creating whatever records are necessary to indicate the animal "died" will be created and signed off by everyone required. These types of false reports aren't federally prosecuted like they would be in the pharmaceutical or aircraft industries, so the risk to the employees is lower. Same to corporate.

Corporate probably just monitors the number of animal deaths per store and looks for outliers on which to initiate an investigation. This is all just educated speculation as I don't know their business models well enough to say for certain.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: darts at petco

I am a case by case kinda cat. By no means do I think everyone should Go Rescue all the unfortunates they see at petco.

But by all means communication and critical review of conditions are tools readily available to us.

I saw the OP as on the fence, and the image of frogs waiting patiently pierced me spiritually. But she did her part.
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: darts at petco

Petco I had some tiny auratus listed as azures for 70$ in poor conditions the other day.😢
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