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-   Beginner Discussion (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/)
-   -   Frog decision (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/354164-frog-decision.html)

hannamaxgracie 01-10-2020 02:41 PM

Frog decision
 
I am currently building a 36x18x36 and two 12x12x18 enclosures. I don't plan on getting any frogs until mid June but I am having a heck of a time deciding on the frogs. Auratus or Tinc?????? These will be housed with Mourning geckos.

Edit****so it looks like people on the board are not fond of mixing mourning geckos and darts.....**** I will be looking into this further.....

Tijl 01-10-2020 03:10 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hannamaxgracie (Post 3080222)
I am currently building a 36x18x36 and two 12x12x18 enclosures. I don't plan on getting any frogs until mid June but I am having a heck of a time deciding on the frogs. Auratus or Tinc?????? These will be housed with Mourning geckos.

Don't house them with Geckos please..Both species need total different care..
You will regret keeping them together.

hannamaxgracie 01-10-2020 03:20 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
Yes! Will definitely rethink housing together... Up until now, most information said it would be fine. Will look to doing a separate build for the geckos.

Tijl 01-10-2020 04:35 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hannamaxgracie (Post 3080232)
Yes! Will definitely rethink housing together... Up until now, most information said it would be fine. Will look to doing a separate build for the geckos.

Super! That information could not be more incorrect. I hope you enjoy your animals for many years to come. :)

RobJersey 01-11-2020 12:35 AM

Re: Frog decision
 
I keep tincs in my 35x18x36 and they use every inch. I also keep mourning geckos with them. I’m currently on the 3rd generation now.. not exactly sure what requirements are different.. neither require uvb, both prefer temps from 70-80, both prefer high humidity 50-90% mourning geckos stay very small only reaching 3ish inches at adult size. They eat dusted insects and crested gecko food.

I wouldn’t recommend a mixed viv for a beginner, but I’d like more explanation as to why you say that it is false that they don’t work together. I know a lot of experienced and reputable keepers that keep them together with both species thriving, not just existing together.

Kmc 01-11-2020 01:57 AM

Re: Frog decision
 
Actually Mourning Geckos retail target are Beginner keepers.

Its the same with the attraction to mixing animals together. I know how this sounds but try not to read a snob vibe, Im not, Im just telling you how it is.


There is just no motive to it thats animal oriented.

gonzalez 01-11-2020 02:15 AM

Frog decision
 
I’m at surprised at how mourning geckos are advertised to beginners as something that should be kept with darts. Even Josh’s frogs says they can be mixed with darts, including the Hawaiian locale, even though they state “Mixing non-sympatric animals may expose all animals involved to new and harmful microorganisms” in this article, specifically as a reason for not mixing animals. https://www.joshsfrogs.com/catalog/b...on-dart-frogs/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kmc 01-11-2020 02:41 AM

Re: Frog decision
 
Some people believe that keeping animals in captivity automatically negates any potential of observing normal behaviors. But I 'believe' that is a short sighted ideology.

As we develop our practices there is opportunity to create vivarium-as-lens. There are behaviors, especially of small and cryptic taxa that viewing on an intimate continuum is enabled in a way that can surpass field work.

But if you are adding other living species in close proxy you can never have a clear site. There will always be a very dynamic feature of unnaturalness. It must be included in everything you might see.

Right down to basics, like frogs eating fruitflies that are regularly walking on the urates deposited by a booming group of little geckos.

"Its okay, its probably not a problem" is one way to look at it.

The closer you watch your animals the more you actually want to know what you are seeing, you can never see them clearly if you only see what you want.

Philsuma 01-11-2020 03:33 AM

Re: Frog decision
 
ask yourself 'what benefit is it to the animals, by keeping multi-species enclosures'.

Zero

Zero benefit to the animals

(devils advocate) but isn't that the reason we keep ANY animal in a glass box - for OUR own benefit.

Philsuma 01-11-2020 02:03 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
"Since there are no known benefits (to the animal) to keeping multi species displays......then what are the known benefits to keeping animals in glass boxes" ?

insert Facepalm GIF

We keep animals in glass boxes because we have to...we have no other choice. We would partition off a section of a huge greenhouse, if we could, but none of us have that kind of scratch.

We DO however, always have a choice not to fill those glass boxes with too many animals, or animals that will not get along and lead to stress.

We always try to minimize stress and use the largest size enclosures. We preach that to all the new people. That's why - when all the "silly" questions coming from new hobbyists hit the forums...we tell them not to dump a lot of frogs, and a lot of different species of frogs together in a 10 gallon tank.

Kmc 01-11-2020 08:56 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
There are benefits to preserving an alternative to species, even if it is in glass boxes, to them disappearing from the planet entirely.

Which is not an impossible prospect.

Kmc 01-12-2020 05:55 AM

Re: Frog decision
 
Most spiders that establish themselves in temperate domiciles are webbing species. Even is it is only a small funneled structure or series of connected shelters.

Small lizards, especially geckos tend to avoid webbing. Although lamellae structures are particulate repellent, it does not hold true for preventing webbing from tangling up in their feet. I know this because of the house geckos sometimes found in the cobs behind wood cages, on the floor.

Even larger animals like a polycrus pair ignored the fat brown false widows that stationed themselves in the uppermost corners of their environment, attracted to the cricket ecology.

It doesnt pull together in the picture people have or in selling points of vendors - the spider control aspect.

If a Mourning Gecko happens to catch a small spider in a viv it is by good fortune and not ecological design.

As for 'extra' insects and escapees, like little reptilian janitors, thats a theoretical wishful thought as well.

Frogs imposed to constant predatory hypervigilance that perhaps dull to a habituated desensitization in time - maybe? Who knows. But its not fair to the animals imo.

hannamaxgracie 01-14-2020 05:41 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
Thanks to everyone for their comments but looks like this discussion went a little sideways.

It is nice to hear tincs do use up the entire height. What about Auratus? Will they use the entire height as well? I have read Leucs will but I am still considering tinc or auratus.

thanks!

Philsuma 01-14-2020 05:47 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
research where the animal lives and acquires prey.

There is a distinct (Tinc heh) difference in location and you NEED to be more aware of this.

They ALL climb, and sure 2 adult terribilis 'can' exist just 'fine' in an enclosure that is 12" wide by 12" deep and 33" tall, but anyone with time and knowledge of these frogs knows that's just wrong.

look at the body habitus of the frog and that will be your first clue if you need a 'real tall' tank or a flatter one.

Kmc 01-14-2020 06:16 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
Sideways? Haha.

Some of the most important, usable things ive ever learned were tangential to my initial goal.

Biology is dimensional. Straight lines end up curving quite frequently.

Phyllobates 01-15-2020 02:44 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
I can hook you up with orange terribilis, green and black auratus, leucomelas maybe even some others. Hit me up- I'm local and avoiding shipping is always nice :)

hannamaxgracie 01-16-2020 06:32 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
That would be great!!!! I won't be ready for frogs till June though. Family vacation so I don't want to add frogs till I know they can be taken care of. I have read that people put in cultures with tiny holes in the lid for FF to escape...

Would love to see the set up though and see the frogs in person? I have only seen the ones at the zoo.....

Kmc 01-16-2020 06:58 PM

Re: Frog decision
 
Its interesting to think of levels, inches, cubes of spaces outside of numerical measurement.

Like if one instead, thought of the tank to choose to be dictated by sprints, and active breathing patterns.

It always seemd to me that an animal should be able to experiece a least the briefest of kinetic excursion in the most readily incited direction - foward without having it strictured in expression.

Im not saying it kills them not to have it or that breeding is inhibited - which has been absolutely proven to not be the case in all of our human use agricultural models.

Im just wondering about Tanks, and how we see and choose them.


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