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-   Beginner Discussion (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/)
-   -   Lighting question (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/353924-lighting-question.html)

Nicknack 12-05-2019 09:33 AM

Lighting question
 
Hey guys, I have had a pair of R Amazonica Iquitos for over a month now and even though I know they are a shy breed, I don't see them much. Has been often days in between. They often come out more when the vivs light is off.
I know they primarily feed dusk/dawn so this is probably imitating their natural habitat, but I'm just worried the light I currently have is potentially too bright and that's why they hide more when it's on.

I have an exo terra 12x12x18 and Im using one of the 13W Exo Terra Natural Lightbulbs. It's been great for my plants and most have doubled in size since planting them, but just worried it's potentially too bright for the frogs.

Does this sound ok? Would you suggest something dimmer if too bright? Would a dimmer bulb then affect the plant life?
Any help on this would be really appreciated

Thanks

PBM3000 12-05-2019 11:33 AM

Frogs, in general, tend to be bolder the more hiding places they have. What’s your setup like?

Socratic Monologue 12-05-2019 01:49 PM

Re: Lighting question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicknack (Post 3078440)
breed

*species. There aren't any 'breeds' of dart frogs, thankfully.

I agree with PMB's concerns. The lighting intensity issue would be easy to troubleshoot -- temporarily put something translucent under your current lighting, or raise the fixture. If your plants have doubled in size in one month, it sounds like enough light to make frogs very uncomfortable.

Another issue might be the spectrum of that lamp --it is blue-shifted, and claims to emit a lot of UVA. Darts do avoid UV (UVB? UVA? I don't know for certain), and could be hiding more for that reason.

Even under optimal conditions, amazonica should be expected to be more shy than not.

Nicknack 12-05-2019 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue (Post 3078454)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicknack (Post 3078440)
breed

*species. There aren't any 'breeds' of dart frogs, thankfully.

I agree with PMB's concerns. The lighting intensity issue would be easy to troubleshoot -- temporarily put something translucent under your current lighting, or raise the fixture. If your plants have doubled in size in one month, it sounds like enough light to make frogs very uncomfortable.

Another issue might be the spectrum of that lamp --it is blue-shifted, and claims to emit a lot of UVA. Darts do avoid UV (UVB? UVA? I don't know for certain), and could be hiding more for that reason.

Even under optimal conditions, amazonica should be expected to be more shy than not.

Thanks for the reply!

Species* sorry aha!

Here's my set up inside the Viv https://www.dropbox.com/s/2i9z4lhva8..._0073.jpg?dl=0

There's plenty of hiding spaces for them and lots of leaf litter. There's a small purpose made hide at the lower left of the Viv for them too.

Il try that, il put something translucent under the light and see if that has any effect.
Is there any bulbs you would reccomend as an alternative?

Nic

Socratic Monologue 12-06-2019 01:32 AM

Re: Lighting question
 
1 Attachment(s)
That's a nice looking viv. I wouldn't say that it has lots of hiding spaces, though. I've attached a older pic of one of my 12 x 12 x 18s that seems to be the best one for promoting bold frogs. (And, yes the neo planted in the substrate died from being too wet, of course. And, yes I replaced it with leaf litter, of course. :)) In the middle bottom, you can just see that there is a dark void space, and the hardscape column on the left is a hollow cork round.

As to lighting, I really, really like dimmable lighting. On new vivs, you can crank it up until the plants grow in, then you can turn it back to make the frogs comfortable. If high temps are ever an issue, turning the lighting down can make a few degrees of difference, too. Check out www.spectraldesigns.com

Kmc 12-06-2019 03:02 AM

Re: Lighting question
 
There is a study remarked apon here numerous times where findings showed that there was avoidance behavior with a tie in that uvb radiation levels have increased due to anthropogenic impacts to the ozone layer.

Wherever there is daylight in nature - there has always been is ultraviolet radiation. The nucleic acid in all living things has responses in spectrum to ultraviolet light.

I have frequently used uvb light in environments as a carefully applied detail, with strategies of cover. It is always positioned at an optional contact. According to my suspicions and then affirmed by meter register, the lights I use supply gradients that only comprise a departure from its complete absence in indoor situ.

I apply it differently for reptiles, with closer exposure options and higher indexes. My Whites have a more reptile style provision and they are over 20 years old.

Just admitting what Ive done, lol

Socratic Monologue 12-06-2019 02:11 PM

Re: Lighting question
 
Kmc, this may be the study you're referring to; Tijl cut and pasted it here recently:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijl (Post 3069390)
Finally, since it has been hypothesized that some animals utilize levels of UV-A as a visual cue to avoid UV-B damage, we artificially elevated ultraviolet-A levels to examine whether males exposed to artificially elevated ultraviolet-A abandoned their perches sooner compared to males exposed to visible light. We found that frogs called from perches receiving low ultraviolet-B regardless of perch height, and that frogs maintain their positions longer on perches receiving low ultraviolet-B compared to perches receiving even slightly higher ultraviolet-B levels. Exposing the frogs to artificially elevated levels of ultraviolet-A radiation caused males to move off of their perches faster than when they were exposed to a control light source. These experiments suggest that ultraviolet radiation plays an important role in frog behavior related to perch selection, even in rainforests where much of the solar radiation is shielded by the forest canopy."

@Tijl, the link to this study you provided is dead. Can you hunt up a citation or a stable URL for this, please?

So the upshot to this seems to be that a lamp that provides high amounts of UVA can trick the frog into avoiding that light since the frog uses UVA exposure as a proxy for measuring UVB exposure.

Nicknack 12-06-2019 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue (Post 3078482)
That's a nice looking viv. I wouldn't say that it has lots of hiding spaces, though. I've attached a older pic of one of my 12 x 12 x 18s that seems to be the best one for promoting bold frogs. (And, yes the neo planted in the substrate died from being too wet, of course. And, yes I replaced it with leaf litter, of course. <img src="http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />) In the middle bottom, you can just see that there is a dark void space, and the hardscape column on the left is a hollow cork round.

As to lighting, I really, really like dimmable lighting. On new vivs, you can crank it up until the plants grow in, then you can turn it back to make the frogs comfortable. If high temps are ever an issue, turning the lighting down can make a few degrees of difference, too. Check out www.spectraldesigns.com

Thanks for the advice! I could potentially add a few more plants higher up the Viv to give it that wall of foliage to hide in.

The link for the dimable lighting doesn't seem to be working. Is there anyway to dim the lighting using the exo terra canopy for my viv? Or would it be a completely different lighting mount and bulb needed?

Nicknack 12-06-2019 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue (Post 3078510)
Kmc, this may be the study you're referring to; Tijl cut and pasted it here recently:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijl (Post 3069390)
Finally, since it has been hypothesized that some animals utilize levels of UV-A as a visual cue to avoid UV-B damage, we artificially elevated ultraviolet-A levels to examine whether males exposed to artificially elevated ultraviolet-A abandoned their perches sooner compared to males exposed to visible light. We found that frogs called from perches receiving low ultraviolet-B regardless of perch height, and that frogs maintain their positions longer on perches receiving low ultraviolet-B compared to perches receiving even slightly higher ultraviolet-B levels. Exposing the frogs to artificially elevated levels of ultraviolet-A radiation caused males to move off of their perches faster than when they were exposed to a control light source. These experiments suggest that ultraviolet radiation plays an important role in frog behavior related to perch selection, even in rainforests where much of the solar radiation is shielded by the forest canopy."

@Tijl, the link to this study you provided is dead. Can you hunt up a citation or a stable URL for this, please?

So the upshot to this seems to be that a lamp that provides high amounts of UVA can trick the frog into avoiding that light since the frog uses UVA exposure as a proxy for measuring UVB exposure.

So a bulb without UVA would be generally better if I wish to have bolder frogs. As I say, I know they are generally a shy species, but if I can make them feel more comfortable then I'd do it

Tijl 12-06-2019 07:06 PM

Re: Lighting question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue (Post 3078510)

@Tijl, the link to this study you provided is dead. Can you hunt up a citation or a stable URL for this, please?

.

Ill try to later this week.

Tijl 12-06-2019 07:07 PM

Re: Lighting question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicknack (Post 3078522)
So a bulb without UVA would be generally better if I wish to have bolder frogs. As I say, I know they are generally a shy species, but if I can make them feel more comfortable then I'd do it

No need, I did an experiment with low lumen Led's for my hahneli and the frogs were 90% less shy than when I used T5.

Most frogs don't see that much sunlight, it's pretty dark in the understory.

Socratic Monologue 12-06-2019 07:24 PM

Re: Lighting question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicknack (Post 3078518)
The link for the dimable lighting doesn't seem to be working. Is there anyway to dim the lighting using the exo terra canopy for my viv? Or would it be a completely different lighting mount and bulb needed?

The link works for me. Try entering the URL manually, or search the web for 'spectral designs'.

There is no way to dim a pet store LED or CFL. With that lamp you're using, I think it is less an intensity issue than it is a UVA issue. You could use a simple screw-in dimmable LED, but your fixture would have to be plugged into some sort of 120vac dimmer.


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