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-   Beginner Discussion (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/)
-   -   Dart frog and fish paludarium. (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/352988-dart-frog-fish-paludarium.html)

aquanerd 09-12-2019 09:12 PM

Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Hello everyone, I am new to dart frogs. I have several aquariums w/ fish though so I am a fish guy lol. I would love to start a paludarium with a glass divider between the land and water, with dart frogs on the land part and fish and Amazonian plants in the water. I have a few questions:

First, I read a post on here from 2016 that said not to do water features. I was actually thinking of doing one, can someone tell me why I should not?

Second, the tank will be a 40 breeder. Should I just section off half of this tank? It is a 36x18x18 tank. This is what Josh's frogs recommend for 2-3 bumblebee dart frogs, which is what I want to get. If these frogs like to climb, should I cut the bottom out of the 18x18x18 Exo Terra tank and mount this on top?

Sorry for all the questions, I know next to nothing about keeping frogs.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 01:21 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Are the Josh's frogs kits any good? I think they would make it a lot easier for me.

Socratic Monologue 09-13-2019 01:55 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aquanerd13 (Post 3072560)
Are the Josh's frogs kits any good? I think they would make it a lot easier for me.

They're fine, I think, if you want someone else to do the planning for you.

If you are thinking that you want to take the pre-planned route, I do not think a dart frog paludarium is something to take on just yet. Engineering anything as complex as you're talking about is a big task requiring a lot of research and, ideally, experience keeping frogs in a relatively more simple frog viv.

I'm a big downer on complex enclosures, mostly because I start from a different place. I learn of a frog species I want to keep, then learn what that frog needs to thrive in captivity, then (if I still want to keep that species after learning what it needs) I build a viv for it. Then I get the frogs.

No darts need water features/waterfalls/paludaria, so those things have never appealed to me.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 01:55 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Should I just do a seperate dart frog vivarium?

Socratic Monologue 09-13-2019 01:58 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aquanerd13 (Post 3072566)
Should I just do a seperate dart frog vivarium?

That's what I would do -- prepare an enclosure suited for the species to be enclosed, rather than making a display that features various animals as decor.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 02:02 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Ok. Are bumble bee dart frogs good for beginners?

Socratic Monologue 09-13-2019 02:03 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Do note that JF's kits can be edited; you can, if you want, use the listed items as a base shopping list, then do some research before purchase and find, say, that a digital hygrometer is a $25 waste, and, say, that there are hardscape elements you like more than a manzanita branch, or you learn about plants you like that might not come in the 'what do we have that isn't selling well' package.

Socratic Monologue 09-13-2019 02:04 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aquanerd13 (Post 3072570)
Ok. Are bumble bee dart frogs good for beginners?

Leucomelas are a good first frog. Read some care sheets, and use the search feature here to read all the archived threads about them.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 02:04 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Right thanks. I will do that. What would be a good beginner frog though?

aquanerd 09-13-2019 02:04 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Ok thanks. I will read about the family you said.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 02:18 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Do I need temperate springtails?

fishingguy12345 09-13-2019 02:19 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aquanerd13 (Post 3072580)
Do I need temperate springtails?

They are the best option.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 03:37 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
The best option for what?

aquanerd 09-13-2019 03:40 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Also, what would be a good size vivarium for Leucomelas?

Socratic Monologue 09-13-2019 03:52 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Here is a good place to start:
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...n-threads.html

Here is a good place to start to learn about leucs:
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ca...as-novice.html

Also, DB has a couple ways to search the archives: the search button in the green toolbar at the top, and the Google search field just above that (I like the Google search, but do try them both to see which you prefer).

Happy reading! :)

Encyclia 09-13-2019 02:21 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fishingguy12345 (Post 3072582)
They are the best option.

I don't even know what kind of springtail I have, but I am curious about this. Why would temperate springtails be better than tropical given the conditions in our vivariums? No challenge intended, I just wanted to learn :-)

Mark

fishingguy12345 09-13-2019 02:28 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Encyclia (Post 3072622)
I don't even know what kind of springtail I have, but I am curious about this. Why would temperate springtails be better than tropical given the conditions in our vivariums? No challenge intended, I just wanted to learn :-)



Mark

Clearly I was tired, I meant tropical springtails are the best option. Whoops!

To reiterate: tropical springtails are the best option.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 03:34 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fishingguy12345 (Post 3072624)
Clearly I was tired, I meant tropical springtails are the best option. Whoops!

To reiterate: tropical springtails are the best option.

What are springtails for? Do the frogs eat them? Do you still have to feed the frogs other stuff?

Encyclia 09-13-2019 03:41 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
There is absolute gold in this forum, but you have to mine it first :-) The search bar is your friend, as Socratic Monologue said. To get you started, I suggest reading the threads linked here:

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...n-threads.html

Best of luck!

Mark

aquanerd 09-13-2019 04:55 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
So I am having 2nd thoughts about the bumble bee dart frogs. I want something that climbs a bit and I read that they don't really climb. Is this true? If so, what are some good beginner species that do climb?

jgragg 09-13-2019 05:10 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

There is absolute gold in this forum, but you have to mine it first :-)
@OP: read this again. See my bold/emphasis. Folks here are super nice. Don't abuse or waste it though. Do some homework, eh?

Good luck!

aquanerd 09-13-2019 06:29 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Ok, thanks. Is this a good hygrometer? If not, which is your favorite?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HDW58GS...v_ov_lig_dp_it

jgragg 09-13-2019 06:50 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
If you searched and read, you would see that for the most part folks here think hygrometers are a waste of money, for several reasons.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 06:54 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
I am very overwhelmed by information right now. As of a month ago, I didn't know people had dart frogs in their homes, so this is very new to me. The plant part is also very hard for me to understand, as I have only kept aquatic plants. I am also confused as to whether or not I need a heater. Cleaning the habitat is a mystery too. Can you please tell me what to get? A thermometer? A humidity reader?

aquanerd 09-13-2019 06:56 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Would an infrared temp gun work?

Socratic Monologue 09-13-2019 06:58 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aquanerd13 (Post 3072664)
Would an infrared temp gun work?

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gt...r%20temp%20gun

Search. Read. Repeat.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 07:29 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
I think I may know the answer to this but would it be cheaper to get a vivarium kit or set it up from scratch?

aquanerd 09-13-2019 07:44 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
So I am able to get hydroton and a 5 pack of egg crate for the same price for a false bottom. Which would be better?

aquanerd 09-13-2019 07:54 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Sorry for all the questions, but would you recommend against a water feature? Don't darts soak up water through their skin?

Socratic Monologue 09-13-2019 08:13 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
aquanerd13, would you do me a favor and count how many times in this thread people have helpfully suggested you search for the information you're looking for?

After you do that, please post that number as a reply to this post. Thanks.

Philsuma 09-13-2019 08:21 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
This is getting hilarious...

aquanerd 09-13-2019 09:13 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
I HAVE been searching. What I am posting here is what I am having a hard time finding answers for.

Philsuma 09-13-2019 10:04 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aquanerd13 (Post 3072684)
I HAVE been searching. What I am posting here is what I am having a hard time finding answers for.

I do believe ya.

Here's a great tip on how to use an OLD forum/medium like this that existed eons before Zuckbook...

Find your topic via the search engine built in here on DB or use google.

THEN after reading the thread and still needing clarification, go ahead and POST your reply DIRECTLY on that old thread.

We will see it and we will better help you that way, instead of shotgunning questions here.

The old heads, back before atomic weapons, used to refer to this as 'Thread Necromancy'. Perfectly useful.

aquanerd 09-13-2019 10:06 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Philsuma (Post 3072686)
I do believe ya.

Here's a great tip on how to use an OLD forum/medium like this that existed eons before Zuckbook...

Find your topic via the search engine built in here on DB or use google.

THEN after reading the thread and still needing clarification, go ahead and POST your reply DIRECTLY on that old thread.

We will see it and we will better help you that way, instead of shotgunning questions here.

The old heads, back before atomic weapons, used to refer to this as 'Thread Necromancy'. Perfectly useful.

Okay most forums I am on don't want people to post on old threads. Sorry.

monsieur_elegante 09-13-2019 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquanerd13 (Post 3072684)
I HAVE been searching. What I am posting here is what I am having a hard time finding answers for.

A helpful tip from one newbie to another - if you're really having trouble searching the wealth of topics here, the way that I like to do it is to use regular Google search, but tag on "dendroboard" to your search term.

For example, just recently, I wanted to learn about how well the plant "cissus amazonica" would do in a dart frog tank. Rather than starting a new post to ask about this, I went to Google, typed in "cissus amazonica dendroboard" in the search bar, and boom! More than enough Dendroboard forum posts to answer to all my questions.

It's pretty much how I mined all the information I needed to get started on this hobby!

Good luck!

aquanerd 09-13-2019 10:15 PM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Ohhh. Thank you very much.

aquanerd 09-14-2019 02:14 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
I have been searching online stores a lot and so far Josh's Frogs has the best deals on vivarium supplies.

aquanerd 09-14-2019 03:40 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
So this is something I have not been finding answers for(or all the ones I find are totally different). Do I need to QT these frogs? I QT my fish in a smaller tank because it is cheaper and easier to treat the display tank. Is this the same for frogs? They are going to be the first frogs, so I don't need to worry about them infecting other frogs.

aquanerd 09-14-2019 05:39 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
IDK why the word 'tank' is a link.

jgragg 09-17-2019 01:00 AM

Re: Dart frog and fish paludarium.
 
Quote:

This is getting hilarious...
I know, right? Damn. Funny-not funny though, right?

Quote:

A helpful tip from one newbie to another - if you're really having trouble searching the wealth of topics here, the way that I like to do it is to use regular Google search, but tag on "dendroboard" to your search term.
Hey, thanks man, that's useful. Well done. Also - thanks for the inadvertent plant tip (though looking at the DB returns as you suggested, it seems some of our members aren't finding care of this little guy quite so easy!):

Quote:

Species: Cissus amazonica
Common name(s): Amazon Jungle Vine
Native to: Brazil
Temperature preferences: Warm growing
Water preferences: Medium to high moisture
Terrestrial or Epiphytic: Terrestrial

General Information and Care: Cissus amazonica, also known as the Amazon Jungle Vine, is a beautiful small leaved vine for terrariums. Typically the leaves will stay around 2-3 in length and only about -1 wide. The leaf surface is typically silver with white veins, while the underside is a bright burgundy. As it grows, it will climb using tendrils which will wrap around other plants or hardscape items to help it ramble around a terrarium. This is a slower growing species compared to many others and will not require regular pruning.

Glass Box Tropicals Plant Care Rating: 3

Shipped Size: Well rooted plant that has been grown in a 2.5 pot. Will be shipped bareroot.



OK. So now. As for this:
Quote:

I am very overwhelmed by information right now. As of a month ago, I didn't know people had dart frogs in their homes, so this is very new to me. The plant part is also very hard for me to understand, as I have only kept aquatic plants. I am also confused as to whether or not I need a heater. Cleaning the habitat is a mystery too. Can you please tell me what to get? A thermometer? A humidity reader?
OK, straight out of the chute I'm gonna lay it out there that I'm taking you seriously - that you aren't just trolling the fuck out of us clowns. Dude, I think my advice is to keep your wallet put away for another few months at least, and just search and read and try to organize your thoughts. Seriously, you need a "schema" or "filing system" to put everything that comes in, so you know how it all relates to everything else.

Honest question, no-judging-zone, related to the schema idea: how old are you, and probably more importantly, how much science education have you been given/forced, or voluntarily gone and gotten for yourself? A hungry precocious 16-year old could dominate this hobby. An ignorant incurious 50-year old could still be flailing after decades. Ahem. That's not me OK? Ha ha.

Anyway - I ask for the following reason. One can approach this material from a more-technical perspective, or from a more-artistic / pure-enthusiasm perspective, but at the end of the day, what we are doing is applied ecology. It's a constructed life-support system in a box. It's got a foundation of science and engineering, and - when we are good, and lucky! - a lovely superstructure of "artsy" perched on top. Hiding the science and engineering, but utterly, utterly dependent on them.

I for one am eternally thankful for my STEM background and orientation. It reduces "the overwhelm" and helps me break down viv + inhabitants problems and situations, so I can design & diagnose & adapt in a smarter order. Basically, it helps me kill less stuff - not a bad outcome, not a bad goal. Anyway, if my question makes you uncomfortable please don't respond. I'm not prying. But please do consider it privately, and what else I said.

Please, if by now you are having a hard time hearing me - look at your thread title again - it's "Dart frog and fish paludarium". Fairly complicated, fairly advanced, fairly technical. That's a pretty serious understatement, OK? And you not even knowing about this hobby a month ago. Slow down, bud, for real. Slow down. My point here is:



If you go all-in on an artsy-enthusiastic, science-free-zone, you're gonna kill a shit-ton of shit. No shit. That is ugly, and that is stupid. Get smart.



Good luck, truly. Slow down, study, learn. Maybe look at fewer pictures for a while, and read more. Kill less shit, support more life. It will feel much better, I promise you. Life is precious, support more life.

Kill less.


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