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Old 07-31-2008, 04:09 AM
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Default Newb With a 75 Gallon

Well Ive been browsing these forums for a while now and decided to register tonight.

Ive been interested for a while now on keeping PDF's. I already have a 75 gallon fish tank that I converted to a vivarium. It is probably 30% water and 70% land. There is quite a bit of moss covering everything and a few basic plants. The substrate is Terra-Lite covered in mesh, coco bedding and a mix of Sphagnum and beaked moss.

I currently have a few fire belly toads and a common frog that found its way into my garage. I plan on moving these to another tank before purchasing any PDF's obviously.

A few questions.

1. Will I need to do anything to the tank before introducing any PDF's?

2. How many PDF's can a 75 gallon house comfortably?

3. Can I just feed them pinheads w/ various supplements?

Thanks for the help!
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

Make sure you have plenty of humidity (you should with 30% water).
Make sure you have no places for them to escape (they're much smaller than what you'd think if you've never seen one in person).
Depending on the species, 75G might only be good for a pair (azureus, tincs), all the way up to 4-5 leucs or auratus, or even 6-7 pumilio/thumbnails. I wouldn't start with pumilio or thumbs though.
You should feed with fruit flies, but if you're truly good at raising crickets and can keep a fresh supply of true pinheads then they will work with supplements.
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

Welcome to the forum, hobby, and probably a new addiction! :wink:
That's great that you have a tank that large to start with. I would stick with the larger frogs too. Groups of leucs would be nice or even a pair of azureus would be cool.
I don't know anything about feeding pinheads as I typically only feed with fruit flies. I also have my tanks seeded with springtails (they are natural cleaners).
I would suggest getting some or even some isopods.
Again welcome!
Kristin
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Old 07-31-2008, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

If your fire bellies and local frog are in the same tank that you plan on housing your darts in, I would have them tested for any diseases before you move any darts in. Wild amphibians can harbor all kinds of parasites and other nasties. If they brought anything in with them then your viv may be tainted, which will in turn affect your darts.
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Old 07-31-2008, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

I plan on moving my firebellies and local frog into my 30 gallon vivarium. The local frog has been in the tank since I first started it about a year ago, and doesnt seem to have any disease.

I might try my hand at fruit flies and spring tails. I just dont have any experience with them.

The tank is pretty tall and I dont have a back ground for them to climb up to the top so I doubt there is any room for escapes lol. The tank has glass tops which should help as well. Im actually thinking about adding one computer fan to help circulate the air, I sometimes find mold on the wood features I have.
My tank has been setup for around a year now and I havent really had any plants/mosses die.

A few pics of my setup.









Think the moss is growing great!


One of my firebellies.



Again, thanks for all the help and info!
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

Just because they show no signs does not mean they have no issues. Many people have kept their frogs for many years and have only realized they had parasites or some type of disease after it was too late. Frogs can live for years harboring parasites, that does not mean they are healthy. The possibilities of cross contamination are very high, especially with wild caught animals. It was just a suggestion. It's never good to see a new dart keeper in the health and disease section wondering whats wrong with their frogs(been there, done that), especially if it could have been avoided in the first place.
I'm no biologist, but I do know that some species are capable of carrying diseases that are much more harmful to other species than they are to themselves. Just something to think about. Maybe someone else will chime in with more detailed info.
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

How would I test for things like that?

I plan on getting a few more plants for the tank soon as well. I had a nice vine growing but it got out of control and I ended up killing it.
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:58 AM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

You can ask your local vet (especially if you have one that specializes in exotics) if they are familiar with and able to do a fecal test on the frogs. This will give you an idea of how clean the frogs are of parasites. Just save a little fresh poo on a damp paper towel and put it in a ziplock bag or even better a film cannister and take it to the vet. You can also contact and ship it here... http://www.fryebrothersfrogs.com/drfrye.html
He specializes in it and it's not expensive. 1 test is better than none, but 3 spaced apart is recommended. A test can be negative, which means nothing was found in THAT sample, but doesn't necessarily mean the frog is clean.
The new plants should also be kept out of the viv to avoid contamination until you know about the frogs. You can also bleach or bake the materials that are in the viv, replace the moss and substrate, clean the live plants w/ a water and bleach solution and bleach the tank. You would have to re-build it, but it will be clean for the new darts and you can re-use all the wood and plants and rocks and what not. Probably a bit cheaper in the long run. Either way, taking the extra precaution now may save you a lot of grief in the long run, not to mention it's in the best interest of the frogs.
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

Hmmm. Ok. Only thing is I dont think I have ever seen that frog poop. I know my firebellies usually poop in the water, b/c its always stuck to my water pump.

Maybe I will just put them both in my other tank and clean out everything. Start with new substrate and mosses. Do you think the terra lite could get contaminated?
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:28 AM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

Everything can. Boil the terra lite, it can be re-used too.
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

Well I might just replace all the substrate all together. It is not deep enough so the soil stays pretty wet all of the time, making alot of plants out of the question.

Making a quick shopping list.
-1 cubic foot terra lite
-4 coco bricks
-2 dendro bricks
-some sort of "mulch"
-Sphagnum Moss

Then once the tank is empty I could build some sort of background.
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

Another option is Coconut husk chips for substrate... I recently looked into and loved the way they looked... So for now what I do is , a layer of Leca balls , screen , then a mix 70% Husk chips 20% Coc Fiber (i.e."Bed-a-beast" type o stuff) 10% Sphagnum ... The husk chips are super cheap ..I bought a bale online for under $40 shipped ....

The advice you have recieved so far is solid in my opinion!

Good luck and keep us updated...
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Old 08-06-2008, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Newb With a 75 Gallon

Well Im working on my 20g (I think its 20 lol). It will be their new home so I can tear down the 75 gallon for the PDF's I want to get.

Im still brainstorming what I wanna do with the 75g once my FBT's are in the 20g.
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