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Old 01-17-2007, 02:22 AM
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Default How long do pdf's breed each year and how many frogs live?

How many frogs do you get from a breeding pair every year? just an estimate would be great.
Thanks alot, Curtis
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:11 AM
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For mint terribilis, my pair laid 52 eggs in 8 days once. Almost all of them lived. most tincs can produce 5-10 eggs a week. If their your only pair and you do it right they can all live. epipedobates and phyllobates can produce upwards of 700+ offspring in a year.
pumilio seem to be able to do 5 or more/2-3 months so 20-40 a year would be tops for pumilio
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogfarm
pumilio seem to be able to do 5 or more/2-3 months so 20-40 a year would be tops for pumilio
5 would be TOPS, however most can sustain no more than 3 healthy tads at a time. Then, taking into consideration the high mortality rates, most people figure no more than 15 offspring per pair per year. And that's a dang good pair.
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:52 AM
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holy crap aaron 52 in 8 days... you must be pretty busy what is the most one of your frog pairs has layed in one year if you dont mind?
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Old 01-17-2007, 05:24 AM
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I don`t keep track how many they have in a year.
5 is lo end for my chiriqui pair, they have raised up to 9 at a time w/ only 1 loss and avg 5-7 healthy offspring per cycle. now THAT`S a good pair and they are a cb pair not w/c.
I have got 7 healthy offspring 1st time around from my golddust bastis and actually avg 5/cycle/pair for the rest of them.

I don`t understand why people have hi mortality rates so i can`t comment on it.
I personally haven`t seen this nor any need to use calc gluconate.
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:16 PM
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I have always loved green and black Auratus since I was really young and I was wondering if anybody could tell me how many they get from their Aruatus pair a year? (thinking about having sweet pets and making money off of my hobbie)
Thanks for all the info guys. Curt
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:35 PM
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Hey, I just learned that my friend is getting given 7 black and green Auratus and are at least a year old. (her aunt had them and her aunt is going to prison, so her aunt doesn't really have a choice) and all seven are in a twenty gallon tank...doesn't sound like to much of a good idea putting that many in that small of a tank but I guess they are getting along. No breeding that I know of though, but I think she just had them to look at and wasn't intrested in breeding them. My question is how do you know what two are a breeding pair? And what size tank would be the right size for seven Auratus? What behavior would the sexed pair have towards eachother?
Any info on this subject would be great. Curt
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:38 PM
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5-10 per week.
6 pair/3 morphs/2 bloodlines of each/4 month breeding seasons keeps the tads and froglets the healthiest and you can switch up what you have available.
4 shelving units hold 4 - 18 gal sterilites each for froglets juvis. 180 tads in 180 16oz cups on another sturdier rack. cork can be sterilized and leaves are free.
4 racks - $40 or less
20 sterilites $100 on sale
40 pieces of glass about$160
tape cork and leaves are all the more you need
7 ft x 3 ft covers 20 tanks
5 ft x 3 ft covers ff`s and tads.
it`s not going to look pretty but for this you want ease of maintenance and efficiency.
for auratus you can make $600/month. an 8x8 room will pay your rent for the whole house and save frogs in the process. setup costs about 1/2 your first months earnings.
I`m in this to save frogs not to be jaded in thinking all my frogs are going to make it whether going to a wholesaler or directly to a hobbiest. they don`t think all their offspring will make it or they wouldn`t breed so damn much either.
Immediate problem is reducing the # of smuggled frogs from the wild. This may help.
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:25 PM
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I am thinking of buying a proven pair of panguana lamasi, do you know anything about this type of frog that I would need to know before I bought them? Or anything else I should know that is different about these frogs from Auratus?

Any info would be great. Thanks Curt
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Old 01-18-2007, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogfarm
5-10 per week.
6 pair/3 morphs/2 bloodlines of each/4 month breeding seasons keeps the tads and froglets the healthiest and you can switch up what you have available.
4 shelving units hold 4 - 18 gal sterilites each for froglets juvis. 180 tads in 180 16oz cups on another sturdier rack. cork can be sterilized and leaves are free.
4 racks - $40 or less
20 sterilites $100 on sale
40 pieces of glass about$160
tape cork and leaves are all the more you need
7 ft x 3 ft covers 20 tanks
5 ft x 3 ft covers ff`s and tads.
it`s not going to look pretty but for this you want ease of maintenance and efficiency.
for auratus you can make $600/month. an 8x8 room will pay your rent for the whole house and save frogs in the process. setup costs about 1/2 your first months earnings.
I`m in this to save frogs not to be jaded in thinking all my frogs are going to make it whether going to a wholesaler or directly to a hobbiest. they don`t think all their offspring will make it or they wouldn`t breed so damn much either.
Immediate problem is reducing the # of smuggled frogs from the wild. This may help.
Could you lay this out for me a little better? I'm getting a pair of D.Tinctoris and my thoughts were exactly that - I'd like to make some money, but I'd also like to donate some back to saving wild frogs. Can you explain that breeding setup in further detail? If you'd like to PM me, that would be great.

cheers.
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Old 01-21-2007, 09:30 PM
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bump


-mike
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:51 AM
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very cool post, i also would like to have the issue elaborated.
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Old 01-22-2007, 12:00 PM
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this is a simple tank setup, easy to wash out, move to vaccuum, clean the mites out of and sterilize after each clutch goes thru.
Pull forward like a drawer and slant toward you, open the spigot and place a bucket under it and throw 2-3 32oz cups of water toward the back and all the poop washes out the spigot. This allows for easy weekly cleanings without having to replace substrate.
After the first week w/ 10 tincs in a container and the amount of poop they produced, I figured that this is the best way to raise froglets. I hate to think of what 4 sets of 10 tincs/year were doing in the old type setups I was using. It looks as if each set of frogs could add a layer of 1/8 inch by the time they were out of there.
On the other hand those tanks were bacterially overflowing. Since frogs relearn there immunity when they transform, I wonder if this was supercharging their immune system and letting the strongest survive w/ a very healthy immune system. The frogs from the new tanks seem to be growing faster. One account for this is that they are now coming out of the water much larger since i trashed the communal tad raising system. Now that i have sooo many less frogs to deal with, i`m planning on doing a lot more reserch into questions like this.
I`m planning on getting a whole bunch of hanging pothos baskets to use clippings in the future along w/ leaves and cork.



Since the tanks are so light you can use plastic racks to hold 4 of them easily. They can be pulled out of the rack and moved to a countertop for easy view or catching them out. The white bottom has made it much easier for the frogs to see the ff`s and I`ve had no ff`s in my morning coffee in weeks now since there are few escapes. With over 200 tanks it`s a HUGE difference to have only 3-4 ff`s escape a tank rather than 20-30.
I`m reverting back to my days as a chef when everything was mopped and cleaned before lights out. I`ve been the biggest sole producer of darts for years now and I`ve learned enough by trying every sytem out there and even a bunch I made up myself. All that Ive learned after all this time: Keep It Simple!!! Temperature up, Frogs breed More and grow faster and stay skinnier, temperature down and they grow slower, breed less and better and stay FAT. Time for cold bloods = temperature. Increase the temps and you speed up the clock, metabolism quickens food gets processed quicker and they grow faster. You want to keep tads cooler to take longer to transform and grow larger before they come out so your not dealing w/ skinny small morphs that take 3 months to get 1".
Swings from day to night help. If you keep it warm at nite the frogs metabolism keeps at peak and they burn off food even when they can`t eat.
No need for an elaborate 100gal tad system w/ sterilizer and filter, unless your sndf or brian`s tropicals, for some reason it works for them. It may have been the addition of phyllos and thumbs to the water which inhibited mine. seems it has to do w/ the water or the species mixed in to the system. I don`t know why but this system seems to work really well for these guys and I couldn`t get it to work here as well as individual 24oz deli cups. It could also be water temps. mine were in the mid 70`s when i was using that system. They have since dropped to 69-70f.
Another thing is that aggression seems to lessen at lower temps when housing 10 frogs in a 20 gal. Probably because lower temps produce less need for food which in turn = less aggression.

Always experiment!! The reason I learned what I did is because I never took anyone else`s work as truth. I tested every setup and system that anyone came up with and observed to see how it worked here. Something as small as the color of the substrate you use can make something work well for you and not the person you got them from. Try to completely mimic someones setup and conditions, it can`t be done. Things such as Ed`s fly meat`s reccomended mix ratio for hydei, I have to add more water because he`s making his in the humid NW and I`m making mine in a house w/ forced heat and a wood stove. Diffeerence in humidity, probably about 50% during the winter. Another reason all glass top pumilio tanks work for me and not in florida. when i open a tank 100% drops to 30% humidity and then it climbs. This may be similar to rain forests where it`s quite humid and a couple times a day a dryer breeze blows thru the understory. Either way, If you have a tank only get between 75 - 100% humidity it`s much different than 30% - 100%. I had a clutch of escudo eggs layed toward the front of the tank dry up when i went to rich`s for fri-sat in a glass top tank. the small breeze getting thru the gap a frog(escuado) couldn`t fit thru dried the egg mass in 2 days w/ no misting.
There is no Quick fix to breeding darts. Make sure they are clean from the start, experiment, observe and think! And by all means keep it simple unless it doesn`t work.
I`ve spent so much time and money on making things I didn`t need in the first place. From pvc and airline hose "water fountains" in each tank to wash and fill the water dishes to elaborate drained and misted tanks(which couldn`t be moved to vaccuum under) laced w/ plants that got too thick to efficiently catch the frogs out, 4 stage filters and uv sterilizers on 100gal overflow return systems that would overflow and allow all 70-80 tads in each underbed box to escape their pvc and battle all nite w/ water and tads spilling all over the floor and only 2 times and only the 2 times are when you leave for an overnite camping trip to alleghany or after you return from the gretchen wilson show after having a couple and you return to what, 20 gallons of water all over the floor, tads attacking each other and flopping on the floor if their still alive and a $100 pump possibly burnt out, which means no filtration till you get a new one. Man I was really trying to run that one on as much as possible. That`s how i used to feel w/ the old system, now i can look back at it and laugh hysterically at how hard I made my life. All for what? To LEARN!
Going back to simple and clean has made my life enjoyable again.

Ha ha, is that enough elaboration!!! Kinda overdid it huh? :lol: :lol:
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:09 PM
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so simple is the name of the game? with those pvc racks and glass tops you have no lighting over the top of them? I guess you dont need lighting for the frogs, and all the plants are really just accessories. So here is my real question, have you taken all of the fun out of the hobby by turning it into a successful business? I have a friend who started a saltwater business servicing tanks and now he absolutely has no interest in the hobby side of it (ie he has no more fun). Am i becoming annoying bombarding you with questions? :wink:
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:28 PM
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It`s become a responsibility. Just like anything else, as you get better you need to be challenged. I`m doing that with the egg feeders. This is just easy and sterile so I can do it in my sleep. It`s still always fun seeing froglets come out, now it`s easier.
so, just the reverse. they used to be harder to take care of, which was no fun, now I`m back to being happy taking care of frogs
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:57 AM
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"Ha ha, is that enough elaboration!!! Kinda overdid it huh?"

No way, that was very informative. Nice post for new people to read(like me)
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