Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Dart Frogs > Beginner Discussion
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise

Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By Toxic
  • 1 Post By goof901
  • 1 Post By hypostatic
  • 2 Post By Trey

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 03:27 AM
that Frog Guy's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Milford, MI
Posts: 439
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Smile Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

I wanted to add Java Moss to my Tadpoles since that is what Josh's Frogs recommended in his video. Here is the link to the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FsiTFKBhko

But everyone here told me not to use Java Moss as the only Java Moss that I can find comes from my LFS (Local Fish Store) and I was told that it might be infected with diseases that could harm my Tadpoles so I did not get any.

Then I came across this site which sells Moss specifically for raising Tadpoles.

New England Herpetoculture LLC - Tadpole Care

Scroll down and you will see it.

They call it "Tadpole Moss" but it looks like any old Moss to me.

So my question is since I cannot use Java Moss I am thinking about using this as an alternative instead.

But wouldn't any Moss do (Josh's Frogs Sheet Moss, Mood Moss, or Shag Moss, etc.)?

They look the same as "Tadpole Moss" to me but maybe I have to use "Tadpole Moss" for whatever reason.

Can someone help.

Has anyone tried "Tadpole Moss" before?

How does it compare to Java Moss?

Can I use other Moss's with my Tadpoles?

I do not want to place an order for just one item and have to pay more for shipping than the price of the actual item.
__________________
Steve

Patricia, Cobalt, Azureus, Leucomela, Green and Black Auratus, Vent Thumbnails

Last edited by that Frog Guy; 08-03-2013 at 03:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 03:46 AM
Toxic's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Little Ferry, NJ
Posts: 277
Thanks: 9
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

I have used NE Herp tadpole moss in my tad containers for about a year now and never had a problem. I have also used java moss from my local pet store, but I'm always finding snails and shrimp in it so i prefer NE Herps moss because it already comes sterilized.
__________________
- Alex N
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 04:48 AM
that Frog Guy's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Milford, MI
Posts: 439
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
I have used NE Herp tadpole moss in my tad containers for about a year now and never had a problem. I have also used java moss from my local pet store, but I'm always finding snails and shrimp in it so i prefer NE Herps moss because it already comes sterilized.
I always order through Josh's Frogs.

Can I just use Josh's "Regular Moss" or do I have to order the NE Herp "Special Tadpole Blend"?

What is the difference?
__________________
Steve

Patricia, Cobalt, Azureus, Leucomela, Green and Black Auratus, Vent Thumbnails
Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 05:08 AM
Toxic's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Little Ferry, NJ
Posts: 277
Thanks: 9
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

I have only used NE Herps tadpole moss before with great results. I have no experience with joshs frogs moss so i can't comment on that. I think you're gonna like the tadpole moss, but it's up to you.
frogface likes this.
__________________
- Alex N
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 06:34 AM
KC3 KC3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Western NC
Posts: 228
Thanks: 25
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

You should just ask Mike or someone from josh's frogs directly. Both of them are really nice and very helpful. That way you actually know what the difference is because you received that info from the seller. You probably wouldn't go wrong either way though.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 11:00 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 685
Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

No, you can not use a terrestrial moss in an aquatic tank. Sheet moss is not a water moss. Java moss is. Java moss grows in vivs only because the humidity is high
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 02:21 PM
that Frog Guy's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Milford, MI
Posts: 439
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Richardson View Post
No, you can not use a terrestrial moss in an aquatic tank. Sheet moss is not a water moss. Java moss is. Java moss grows in vivs only because the humidity is high
I am using the Moss in 16 Ounce Deli Cups filled with Water and Tadpoles, not a Vivarium.

I am wondering if Regular Moss that is sold at Josh's Frogs is OK for Raising Tadpoles as an alternative to Java Moss.
__________________
Steve

Patricia, Cobalt, Azureus, Leucomela, Green and Black Auratus, Vent Thumbnails
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 03:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 685
Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Me too. No, It will die and put off CO2. I understood I am saying only java can be used in water and a vivarium is due to humidity. It grows under water. sheet moss does not, spag moss does not, pillow moss does not
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Scott Richardson For This Useful Post:
tortoisekeeper (08-03-2013)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:25 PM
that Frog Guy's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Milford, MI
Posts: 439
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Richardson View Post
Me too. No, It will die and put off CO2. I understood I am saying only java can be used in water and a vivarium is due to humidity. It grows under water. sheet moss does not, spag moss does not, pillow moss does not
I am confused.

If it will die why do they have it listed under Tadpole Care and call it Tadpole Moss?

It states that each batch is enough to do 20 Tadpole Deli Cups.
__________________
Steve

Patricia, Cobalt, Azureus, Leucomela, Green and Black Auratus, Vent Thumbnails
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 06:58 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 685
Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

because they are using an aquatic moss which Java moss is an aquatic moss.

The others are not aquatic mosses.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 07:50 PM
hypostatic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,469
Thanks: 124
Thanked 228 Times in 202 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

I'm currently using the NE Herp tadpole moss with good success. I think it's a basic mix of all of the mosses they have for sale. Only one of the types seems to grow in the water, and from my limited understanding it SEEMS to be java moss, but it also kinda looks like NE Herps' Thuidium delicatulum.

Anywho, it works well, and I'd recommend it.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:31 PM
frogface's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 8,465
Thanks: 1,444
Thanked 679 Times in 521 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

I use the tadpole moss from NEHerp. I agree that it might just be old moss, or rather, moss that can't be sold as terrarium moss for whatever reason. But, it is reasonably priced for use with tadpoles and I have had very good results.

I find that the more moss, leaf, gravel, whatever, I put into the cup, the better the water quality seems to be. I know there's a sciency reason for it but I don't know what it is.
__________________
Kris
Find a local frog vet here --> http://www.arav.org/
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: san diego, california
Posts: 1,613
Thanks: 19
Thanked 59 Times in 59 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

I have NEHERP terrarium moss (thuidium delicatulum) growing underwater so I believe it is an aquatic moss... I use their tadpole moss as well. It comes back to life in a couple of weeks too...
frogface likes this.
__________________
1.1 Banded Leucs just layed eggs!
0.0.2 Varadero
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2013, 12:55 AM
gturmindright's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan
Posts: 1,044
Thanks: 12
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Why do you want to add moss? Can't you just add any aquatic plant? Are you wanting to add aquatic plants to consume ammonia and nitrates? What about nitrites? What if you just forgot about plants, use cycled water and did frequent partial water changes?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2013, 12:57 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 273
Thanks: 22
Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

To add to the confusion, I used java fern. I think it's a bit easier to work with.
__________________
-Mike
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2013, 01:44 AM
KC3 KC3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Western NC
Posts: 228
Thanks: 25
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Not trying to steal the thread but now that I'm completely confused as well... What moss can and can't you use? Can you ONLY use aquatic moss and the others co2 build up kill tads or will other moss be ok if using only a little?
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2013, 02:45 AM
hypostatic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,469
Thanks: 124
Thanked 228 Times in 202 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Quote:
Originally Posted by gturmindright View Post
Why do you want to add moss? Can't you just add any aquatic plant? Are you wanting to add aquatic plants to consume ammonia and nitrates? What about nitrites? What if you just forgot about plants, use cycled water and did frequent partial water changes?
I add moss for a couple reasons: the tadpoles like to hide in it, and they like munching on it a bit. I've also added duckweed (which I was surprised to actually see a tadpole swallow whole!). I don't think they prefer eating it over pellets and flakes, but if nothing else is around they'll graze on it.

From what I've observed with my azureus tads, nitrates/nitrites/phosphates and other stuff that you would worry about with fish aren't as much of an issue. They don't have gills and they breathe through the air. When I notice that there's a lot of poop and it's bugging me, I'll aspirate the poop out with a transfer pipette, but the tads don't seem to mind.

I think the reason why water quality doesn't really matter is because the tads don't have gills and they breathe air. This is why I believe it doesn't matter whether or not water changes are done (which has been discussed a lot on the boards).

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC3 View Post
Not trying to steal the thread but now that I'm completely confused as well... What moss can and can't you use? Can you ONLY use aquatic moss and the others co2 build up kill tads or will other moss be ok if using only a little?
Same goes with CO2 -- no gills, no problem. I don't think the type of moss that you use matters as long as the moss doesn't end up dying and molding over.

That being said, while I don't think average nitrite/nitrate/CO2 buildup affects them negatively, I'd imagine that ammonia or high CO2 buildup might do some harm if the pH is changed drastically. Which is why I think tadpole tea is so often used, because it lowers the pH and I'm sure it adds some buffering capacity to the water. I'd imagine and plants/mosses would do the same.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2013, 01:27 PM
gturmindright's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan
Posts: 1,044
Thanks: 12
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

I use rooibos tea. I add some duckweed for the heck of it. I suck out the poop at the bottom and refill whatever I took out with the poop. I would use some aquatic moss if it weren't so hard to find and expensive.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 05:04 PM
hypostatic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,469
Thanks: 124
Thanked 228 Times in 202 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Quote:
Originally Posted by hypostatic View Post
From what I've observed with my azureus tads, nitrates/nitrites/phosphates and other stuff that you would worry about with fish aren't as much of an issue.
Ok, it seems I lied. About the PO4 at least. Apparently high enough levels of PO4 can cause SLS, if I understand this post from Ed correctly:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...tml#post673597
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 05:22 PM
Trey's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 287
Thanks: 8
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Quote:
Originally Posted by hypostatic View Post
I add moss for a couple reasons: the tadpoles like to hide in it, and they like munching on it a bit. I've also added duckweed (which I was surprised to actually see a tadpole swallow whole!). I don't think they prefer eating it over pellets and flakes, but if nothing else is around they'll graze on it.

From what I've observed with my azureus tads, nitrates/nitrites/phosphates and other stuff that you would worry about with fish aren't as much of an issue. They don't have gills and they breathe through the air. When I notice that there's a lot of poop and it's bugging me, I'll aspirate the poop out with a transfer pipette, but the tads don't seem to mind.

I think the reason why water quality doesn't really matter is because the tads don't have gills and they breathe air. This is why I believe it doesn't matter whether or not water changes are done (which has been discussed a lot on the boards).



Same goes with CO2 -- no gills, no problem. I don't think the type of moss that you use matters as long as the moss doesn't end up dying and molding over.

That being said, while I don't think average nitrite/nitrate/CO2 buildup affects them negatively, I'd imagine that ammonia or high CO2 buildup might do some harm if the pH is changed drastically. Which is why I think tadpole tea is so often used, because it lowers the pH and I'm sure it adds some buffering capacity to the water. I'd imagine and plants/mosses would do the same.



Not too sure where u are getting info on tadpoles not having gills...
but its wrong.

That being said I never added anything to cups. Just feed everyday and change the water everyday.
__________________
~Trey Keyes
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 07:20 PM
hypostatic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,469
Thanks: 124
Thanked 228 Times in 202 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trey View Post
Not too sure where u are getting info on tadpoles not having gills...
but its wrong.
From what I've read, while tadpoles are developing inside the egg they have a pair of external gills, but these fall off shortly before they are due to hatch. Here is one source:
Frog Forum - Raising Thumbnail Dartfrog Tadpoles (Ranitomeya)

Edit:

Here is a picture of a tadpole embryo with the gills plainly visible, and the tadpole after hatching, with one gill having been dropped

Last edited by hypostatic; 08-12-2013 at 07:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 07:34 PM
Trey's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 287
Thanks: 8
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Notice, external gills.
__________________
~Trey Keyes
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 08:14 PM
hypostatic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,469
Thanks: 124
Thanked 228 Times in 202 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trey View Post
Notice, external gills.
Yes. Notice, however, that in the second picture one of the gills is missing, and the other is much smaller. This is because the gills get reabsorbed by the tadpoles. And also why you'll notice that tadpoles that have been hatched for a few days do not have gills

Frog Forum - Raising Thumbnail Dartfrog Tadpoles (Ranitomeya)
"You can just make out the external gill filaments (thin pink threads). The tadpoles resorb these gill filaments about 24 hours before they are due to hatch."

Here you can see tadpoles that have been hatched for some time, clearly lacking external gills




Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:01 PM
Trey's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 287
Thanks: 8
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Please google a picture of a bullfrog tadpole, and tell me if you see external gills.

Now I could be wrong, as I am not as versed in the metamorphosis of dendrobatids as I would like, however it is my understanding that in most anurans, the lungs begin to develop as the the legs do, and are not fully developed until all four Legs are formed. Until this time they respirate utilizing mainly gills.

Hopefully someone with the time to cite a credible source will chime in
__________________
~Trey Keyes
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:18 PM
Gamble's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 2,465
Thanks: 290
Thanked 216 Times in 168 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Hypo ... I'm pretty sure Trey is correct.
They absorb the external gills upon hatching, yes.

But they do retain internal gills.

They lose their gills upon "metamorphic climax", at which time they grow front legs & gain lung use & the ability to breath not only thru their skin, but thru lungs as well.
They do not have that ability until after metamorphosis.
__________________
Nick Gamble
The results of your fecals are in ... you tested positive for bulls#!%.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:24 PM
hypostatic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,469
Thanks: 124
Thanked 228 Times in 202 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Oh, ok, sorry. I was arguing specifically on the point of external gills.
Gamble likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:31 PM
Trey's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 287
Thanks: 8
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Default Re: Tadpoles - Is it better to put in Regular Moss or just stick with Java Moss

Metamorphic climax, now that sounds fun


Hypostatic. You were not arguing specifically on external gills. You were arguing that tadpoles use lungs to respirate. Remember, I said "notice, external gills."

You even said in your post, "They don't have gills and they breathe through the air."

Just saying
gturmindright and Gamble like this.
__________________
~Trey Keyes
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bought Java Moss at Pet Store for Tadpoles - Do I have to Clean it? that Frog Guy Beginner Discussion 19 05-30-2013 02:00 PM
ricca moss and java moss gio Plants 5 06-03-2011 01:20 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.