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Old 07-12-2013, 09:15 PM
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Default A few Q's about switching established gecko viv to frog viv

Hi. I have a 1 year old established 12x12x18 vivarium with a crested gecko, but he will be moving into a larger viv in a month or two, and now i'm looking into a replacement critter(s) for the smaller tank. I'm looking to keep the same plants/environment running, and from the brief research I've done, dart frogs sound like they may be a good fit.

To help guide my decision, what frogs will do well in an environment *similar* to a crested gecko's? 60-80% humidity, 70-80 degrees, relatively...

Are there frogs that have a similar diet? Springtails, Isopods, crickets? If I can avoid fruit flies, roaches awesome. Any frogs eat fruit or prepared "diet" like geckos?

Are there communal frogs that I can house while avoiding babies/breeding, or is this a part of the package?

Lastly, how "clean" should I make the tank between species switching? A good thorough wiping and soil stirring (need to do to get better aeration going), or a complete cleaning/sterilization of plants, dirt, decor?

Thanks in advance for helping me expand my critter collection.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: A few Q's about switching established gecko viv to frog viv

Ideally... you are going to want a complete sterilization when switching a cage over for animals that are from completely different locations in the world like that. You run the risk of (among other things) introducing a pathogen that could have been harmless to the gecko but deadly for the frog.

As for food... you really are going to want to be feeding fruit flies with most frogs that can fit in that size of an enclosure. Its a matter of getting them the appropriate nutrients (vitamin powders) on a properly sized food item. Springtails and isopods are great for secondary food items, but can't really replace flies. Also, darts won't eat any prepared foods. There are a few darts that can take down crickets regularly, but they need much more space than a 12x12 footprint.
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: A few Q's about switching established gecko viv to frog viv

Thanks for your reply, Tom. I've read briefly that fruit flies are very easy to culture, but will do thorough research soon. My only concern is them getting loose around our open floor plan house, and into my kitchen. I grow almost all our own food, and store plenty outside the fridge, and my mind instantly screams NO to flies...

Will definitely sterilize between breed/tank use. Heck, it gives me the chance to revamp the vivarium, and that's always fun!

If I could've avoided buying the 12x12x18, I would've just skipped it and gone straight to the final size for my gecko, but since I have it, I may as well use it!

So, what type of frog (and how many) CAN fit in this size tank? I'm hoping for a variety that won't be too advanced to care for... Maybe one I won't need to worry about breeding? Is this a common practice/caring for of communal frogs?

Thanks again for helping me as I continue my research too...
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: A few Q's about switching established gecko viv to frog viv

I'll hit these individually for ya:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grnthumbmom View Post
Thanks for your reply, Tom. I've read briefly that fruit flies are very easy to culture, but will do thorough research soon. My only concern is them getting loose around our open floor plan house, and into my kitchen. I grow almost all our own food, and store plenty outside the fridge, and my mind instantly screams NO to flies...
There are a lot of things you can do to minimize "escapees". If you look around you will see that most people do a glass top with a small strip for ventilation... Make sure you use no-see-um screen or another fine mesh for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grnthumbmom View Post
Will definitely sterilize between breed/tank use. Heck, it gives me the chance to revamp the vivarium, and that's always fun!
Yup, just hit it with some bleach and you get to start all over. There are some awesome build threads on here so definitely dig around and find a method you're comfortable trying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grnthumbmom View Post
If I could've avoided buying the 12x12x18, I would've just skipped it and gone straight to the final size for my gecko, but since I have it, I may as well use it!
it was a good thing you bought the smaller one, now you get more variety

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grnthumbmom View Post
So, what type of frog (and how many) CAN fit in this size tank? I'm hoping for a variety that won't be too advanced to care for... Maybe one I won't need to worry about breeding? Is this a common practice/caring for of communal frogs?
To be honest... generally the 12x12x18s are only best for a pair of some of the smaller frogs. It is kinda cramped quarters for a lot of the larger beginner frogs. People often don't realize how territorial darts can be and think that because they are small they can fit them in small spaces... which just isnt the case.

I would recommend looking into some of the "larger" thumbnail species like Variabilis, Vanzolinii or even Lamasi. Ventrimaculata/amazonica are also a great option and you could probably squeeze a 3rd frog in that tank with them. You could keep a pair of any of those frogs and they would be fun. The smaller Epipedobates like Tricolors or Anthonyi are great options as well.

As for the breeding thing... usually the only way to avoid breeding is to keep one sex... haha If you provide these frogs with the right conditions... they are gonna do it. You can limit things by not providing a lot of egg laying sites or places to deposit tadpoles, but even that isnt a sure thing.

hope that helps!

PS... welcome to the board! its nice to see someone new that is versed in using bb code
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:24 AM
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Ditto what Tom said (well done).
If you are considering darts ffy's are a staple to their diet so you will need to ffy proof the viv.or look into non fruit fly inhabitants.
Like Tom said thumbs are a good choice for that size of viv, I will add looking at standard imitators as an option. Plus a couple small thumbnails do not need as many ffy's as a larger morph, so less ffy escapees.
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Old 07-13-2013, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: A few Q's about switching established gecko viv to frog viv

If you wanted to avoid flies, tree frogs could fit the bill. Thinking couple of retf maybe clown. Treefrogs mostly will need a rain chamber to breed so you can avoid that too. I think the conditions you described would fit these nicly
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