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Old 03-07-2019, 10:11 AM
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Default How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Hello! I wanted to share a recent grow report I made on the dutch forg forum.
I tried my best to translate...

Introduction : I own 4 Ameerege Hahneli "Tahuyao" adults from the Understory Enterprises line. 3 Males and 1 female. These are tiny black frogs with 2 white dorsal stripes, brownish leggs, a blue belly and yellow to red signalspots on the back of their legs. Both front and back. I purchased these frogs in 2014 from Ruud Schouten (Dutch Rana).

Picture of a male :


These frogs are most active in the early morning and late noon/evening and more shy for the rest of the day. At dusk and dawn you can hear the males calling almost nonstop. I spray them water for 3x 12 seconds a day and the temperture is 20c-24c.

Youtube fragment of the dominant male calling : https://youtu.be/u_a5bOYkJ2c

When they breed, I find their clutches mostly in film cannisters. The male can always be found nearby guarding the eggs.

Picture of an egg clutch :


When the young tadpoles are ready to come out of the eggs, the males helps them and carries the tadpoles on his back towards water.

Picture of the male and his tadpoles :


Now, my experience tels me the tadpole quickly die when they are raised in still water. This takes almost no longer than a day or 2. So, when raising these tadpoles we need running water!! For this grow report,I installed a small aquarium containing a pomp to get the water running, a big rock for land acces and some tiny gravel for shelter. I aslo find that the water is best kept on room temperature. So i do not add an aquriumheater or something like that. The tadpoles need to grow slowly and warm water speeds up their devolpment.

Here are some pictures of the hahneli tadpole setup i used for this report (and my cat came to say hi...) :





Now we are ready to start raising some tadpoles!

But first we need to help the tadpoles out of their clutch. For this i use some basic equipment :








Youtube fragment of how i release them from the clutch : https://youtu.be/2Ba0IPyXJ-A

I also write down of the tank how many tadpoles I released in the aquarium :



Now the tadpoles were released in the water, I tested between 3 different foodsources i use for feeding tadpoles. I found that they only eat from the algae wafers, so i dont gave them fishflok or koi staples annymore. Koi staples from hikari are amazing for raising tinctorius by the way!



I realised i also forgot to put oakleaves in the water, so I added these and now we can lay back and watch the tadpoles eat and develop into frogs.
The complete morphose take around 2months.
















Now the young frogs come on land, I use a plastic container with just basic setup to raise them during the first month of their lives. This makes it easier to count them and make sure they grow well! The frogs all came on land with their tale still attached to them. Only one tadpole did not completely develop, so i am left with 14 frogs instead of 15. I still keep them on roomtemperature, i don't think these will benefit from higher temperatures! Allot of Ameerega have growth problems and i believe temperture has a big influence on this!








For these young frogs, it is realy important to give them realy small food.
The first 2 weeks the almost only eat the smallest of springtails. After the first weeks I also feed them smallfruitflies and aphids, but for some it still is hard to eat.
It also is realy important to give them aditional vitamines and cal/mag, I use the Dutch Rana brand.

A picture to compare the size of the frogs with an adult springtail :


A month after they are introduced to the plastic container, their tale has grown completly in and their colors are showing now. They are also able to eat all seize of springtails, aphids, sowbugs and small fruitflies,not yet big fruitflies at this time.





2 months after they came on land and the frogs are all devolped without any problems, it is time to put them i a bigger tank were they can be kept and raised until they are sold. The temperature is still around 19c-21c, I will not use a heating source for the frogs until they are 6-8 months old.




Another month passes by and the frogs are now becomming more shy and just like their parents are mostly seen during dusk or dawn. They still are on the same diet, but now they also eat big fruitflies! Altho they still prefer smaller flies. I added some more oak leaves and a bromeliad to the tank so they show theirselves a little more and also have more places to hide.



The frogs are now 3months old and 1/3 or half the size of their parents.
I will keep them until they are +-9 months old before i sell them and the caresheet pretty much stays the same.


If I forgot something or if you have any comments or questions, please post them!

I hope this can be helpfull!

Greets,

Tijl

Last edited by Tijl; 03-07-2019 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Nice! Thank you for sharing this. Your translation is really good, too.

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Originally Posted by Tijl View Post
For these young frogs, it is realy important to give them realy small food.
The first 2 weeks the almost only eat the smallest of springtails. After the first weeks I also feed them smallfruitflies and aphids, but for some it still is hard to eat.
It also is realy important to give them aditional vitamines and cal/mag, I use the Dutch Rana brand.
Do you supplement the springtails and aphids in any way?
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:34 PM
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Hi, thanks for the reply!

I dust some of the springtails and aphids with amphib from herpetal, but i am not sure the frogs always go after these. Isopods (sowbug) are too hard to dust. I do take a few spoons of substrate filled with isopods from cultures and radomly deposit these in the tank. I also always put some insect cultures in the front of the tank so they have acces to the smallest or youngest of insects. I believe that spraying water mixed with vitamines + clacium and magnesium is essential to keep froglets healthy.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

I wanted to add some pictures of the adult frogs :






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Old 03-12-2019, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Do the hahneli tadpoles not emerge from the eggs on their own? It actually looked like you physically removed the tad from the egg that held it. I have always waited for the tads to hatch on their own before transferring them to their rearing container/s. Have you experienced tads struggling to emerge from the egg and drown/die?
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Also how much water is that pump moving? You don't worry about the tads getting tired and getting sucked into the impellor of the pump?
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Hi Mike!

Yes , I did remove the completely devoloped Hahneli tadpoles from their clutch by hand because the most tadpoles won't come out without the help from their parents or breeder. If you would wait for them to come out by themselves, +90% would drown in their own clutch.

DO NOT USE THIS APPROACH WITH OTHER TADPOLES/EGGS!!!

It is realy important to know these (and also other) tadpoles require a totaly different care and/or approach than the most common frogs in the hobby. (This is the reason I made this particular growreport.)
For example : they are as different in care as Pumilio tadpoles are from Tinctorius tadpoles as they are from Atelopus tadpoles... If you would use the steps of the most common caresheet : put a tadpole in a bowl of water with some java moss and a oakleave, they would die in +- 2 days... The same goes for Pumilio or Atelopus tadpoles...


The aquarium pomp is just a realy small one. It is a "Superfish Aqua-flow 50", you can look up it's specifications. The tadpoles have no problem with the waterflow at all, they sometimes even hide under the pomp!


I hope this answers your questions and I am glad for your interest!
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Last edited by Tijl; 03-13-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

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Originally Posted by Tijl View Post
Hi Mike!

Yes , I did remove the completely devoloped Hahneli tadpoles from their clutch by hand because the most tadpoles won't come out without the help from their parents or breeder. If you would wait for them to come out by themselves, +90% would drown in their own clutch.

DO NOT USE THIS APPROACH WITH OTHER TADPOLES/EGGS!!!

It is realy important to know these (and also other) tadpoles require a totaly different care and/or approach than the most common frogs in the hobby. (This is the reason I made this particular growreport.)
For example : they are as different in care as Pumilio tadpoles are from Tinctorius tadpoles as they are from Atelopus tadpoles... If you would use the steps of the most common caresheet : put a tadpole in a bowl of water with some java moss and a oakleave, they would die in +- 2 days... The same goes for Pumilio or Atelopus tadpoles...


The aquarium pomp is just a realy small one. It is a "Superfish Aqua-flow 50", you can look up it's specifications. The tadpoles have no problem with the waterflow at all, they sometimes even hide under the pomp!


I hope this answers your questions and I am glad for your interest!
I appreciate you sharing these gold nuggets of knowledge.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Missed a clutch 2 times in a row now... Got me these pictures tho :






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Old 04-03-2019, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Awsome! That's a full load right there. I thought you were having a hard time getting the tads to release from the eggs on their own? Looks like they didn't have any trouble based off of your pictures.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:56 PM
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I think you misunderstoud. The tadpoles can indead only get out of their clutch by the help of their father or by hand like i do.

The problem here is the male cannot transport the tadpoles towards a good spot for the tadpoles to survive. They recuire running water, but there is none available in the tank. So he will probably deposit the tadoles in the water of a bromeliad if i am not able too catch the male on time. Or hopefully he deposits them in the waterreservoir in the front of the tank, than i am able to scoop the tadpoles out with a small fishnet. But this all needs to happen quite fast for the tadoles to survive.

This problem is actualy the entire reason i wrote this topic. You realy need to raise the eggclutches by hand in order to get the most healthy offspring from these frogs.
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Last edited by Tijl; 04-03-2019 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 04-04-2019, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijl View Post
I think you misunderstoud. The tadpoles can indead only get out of their clutch by the help of their father or by hand like i do.

The problem here is the male cannot transport the tadpoles towards a good spot for the tadpoles to survive. They recuire running water, but there is none available in the tank. So he will probably deposit the tadoles in the water of a bromeliad if i am not able too catch the male on time. Or hopefully he deposits them in the waterreservoir in the front of the tank, than i am able to scoop the tadpoles out with a small fishnet. But this all needs to happen quite fast for the tadoles to survive.

This problem is actualy the entire reason i wrote this topic. You realy need to raise the eggclutches by hand in order to get the most healthy offspring from these frogs.
Thank you very much for the clarification
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Old 04-04-2019, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

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Thank you very much for the clarification
You are welcome. Again, I thank you for your interest!
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Tijl, thanks so much for posting this. Can I ask how applicable this guide is for other Ameerega species? Also, can you tell me how you know it's time to free the tadpoles from the egg (if you intend not to let the male transport)? It seems like it's a race between you and the male to get as close to to the time the tadpoles would have hatched as possible :-)

Thanks again!

Mark
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:09 PM
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Hi mark! You can probably use some parts of this topic as a foundation for raising tadpoles, but i cannot garanty it will be the correct way to raise other Amereega or other species for that mathet... So i must advice everyone not to use this exact guideline for raising other tadpoles than A. hahneli.

There is a high chance that the food other Amereega tadpoles recuire will varry. Mayebe other Amereega tadoples are cannabalistic, so they have to be raised individualy... I have no experience with other Amereega, so i do recommend to look for other grow reports on the world wide web.



Very good question about releasing the tadoles! I should have gone deeper into this subject perhaps...

I release the tadpoles from their clutch a day,mayebe two after they completely lose their external gills. I do look at each tadpole induvidualy for this! This can vary a few days to a week between them. If possible i will try to take some pictures tomorrow of other tadoles to show you what the external gills look like and what it looks like when they lost them.
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Old 04-05-2019, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

I was not able to take decent pictures of tadpoles with and without external gills. Instead I took these random pictures from google to show the difference :

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Old 04-06-2019, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

It seems like today I won the race!

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Old 04-18-2019, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

They are almost ready to hatch!

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Old 04-18-2019, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Those look like they are coming along nicely! Your thread may yet inspire me to get some the next time I see some available here in the states. I almost got some the last time Understory had them available but decided to pass. Probably the right decision at the time, but can't help feeling like I missed out when I look at this thread.
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Old 04-21-2019, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

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Those look like they are coming along nicely! Your thread may yet inspire me to get some the next time I see some available here in the states. I almost got some the last time Understory had them available but decided to pass. Probably the right decision at the time, but can't help feeling like I missed out when I look at this thread.
Nice to hear this topic inspires someone to keep these underappreciated dartfrogs! I wish I could sent you some of my offspring, but i think shipping these animals from europe to the us is almost impossible.
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Old 04-30-2019, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

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Also how much water is that pump moving? You don't worry about the tads getting tired and getting sucked into the impellor of the pump?



I just had to take a photo
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

I try to take some close-ups today to show the tadpoles have white spots in the facial area. To me these tadpoles are just gorgeous!



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Old 05-09-2019, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

In this picture you can see the 7 day difference in size between tadpoles. The tadpole on the left has just been released from its clutch an the tadpole on the right is now 7 days old. Amazing how fast they grow!

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Old 06-02-2019, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

Most of the time I get this on camera :



But I find they are easier to get on camera by turning off the lights and wait a few minutes :




The frogs on the pictures are now 6 months old.


I am planning to experiment with some "low luminance" LED strips one of the next weeks. I am thinking this will make this species of frogs less shy and more visible. They don't seem to be scared or alarmed so quick and act more bold when the lights are off. When giving less light in the tank (but still enough to make everyting vissible) I hope to solve this problem. Thumbs up!
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Old 06-22-2019, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

The budget LED strips have been amazing! The frogs are getting realy bold and showing themselves all the time for the last 2 weeks! I guess lower lighting is the way to go for more shy species.

Also the new offspring all came on land perfectly, 22 juveniles in total this time.
This is their new grow-out box : https://youtu.be/kupDp1WJRpQ It is a simple, but effective setup. Using just leaves and one springtail culture in the plastic container.

Don't you just melt when you see how tiny and beautifull these baby frogs are.
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: How to raise A.Hahneli "Tahuyao" from eggs to frogs

This morning I heard more than one male calling in juvenille tank, they are now +-7-8 months old. I hope to find a clutch of eggs to confirm the age of when these frogs (females) are breeding ready.
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