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Bad egg clutches

5K views 49 replies 8 participants last post by  Jand1k 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi guys, just need some suggestion from your experience about breeding.

My 2 females variabilis have both laid probably at least 8 clutches each but none ever developed. They just developed white spots on the 3rd/4th day and then gradually the white increases and the eggs look bad.

The noticeable changes apart from the egg turning white are: the egg White/jelly gradually goes cloudy from the 3rd day; the egg yolk itself doesn't expand as some photos of bad eggs that I've seen. They just lose their black color, either going white or creamy and then the cloudy egg White envelops it.

The things that I'm doing:

-Supplementing with repashy vit A every 2 weeks; and calcium plus every feeding which is every 2/3 days. Vitamins are all under 6 months and I put them in the fridge, while only taking small batch outside which will be used for dusting, so minimising the cold and warm temperature for the supplement tubs.

- spring water in canisters, about half filled or a bit less. They lay their eggs just under the water line. I have tried putting Indian oak leaves to condition the water in the canister but that didn't work.

My thoughts:
- based from my reading of threads here about bad eggs, which I've virtually seen every thread lol, good eggs will always develop regardless of the condition. And bad eggs always will go bad even in the best condition. Condition which I mean water is the acceptable type with no high level amount of chlorine for example. Is this correct? I've heard some breeders use rainwater when normally it's polluted, but I think they let them sit for several days before using them for tadpoles.
- I haven't used petri dish as I want them to develop in situ and I'll just drop some omega one flakes. I've read threads that suggests to leave the eggs in the viv until it develops and about to hatch. But mine is not developing at all even inside... 😞
- I'm using still spring water. Is that bad? As for the canister, do I need to remove the water and replace it regularly with 'clean' water when the eggs are laid? Or will they develop even without changing water? I know I mentioned that people have said good eggs will develop regardless.

What am I doing wrong? Is there anything I'm missing or not doing? I thought that leaving the eggs in the canister in the viv is good so that the eggs are not disturbed from movement of transferring, and just transfer when hatched? I don't think there are bugs in my viv that killing the eggs? Or could it simply be that they just haven't figured it out yet?

I've removed the canister for now and doing a dry season for a few weeks to a month and then see what happens. Any suggestion is appreciated. Thank you!
 
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#34 ·
Here's an update of the egg that was in the canister. It hatched last night and saw the dad transporting this morning. Just placed a small cup on the ground to see if he will put there...and he did.
 

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#36 ·
I don't think so. The second male, if carrying a tad into an occupied phytotelma, would lose that tad to cannibalism. In Ranitomeya parasitism, the dad either deposits a tad in a phytotelma containing unhatched eggs, or entices a female who is not the mom to lay eggs in a phytotelma containing his own tads.

What you're seeing is likely an insufficient number of deposition sites for the number of breeding frogs.
 
#37 ·
Ahh! Is that what it is!? Thanks for the info MS. At the moment I really don't want them to breed yet, hence the lack of canister. I just want to see how these turn out first. I've got another canister in the viv but that's got a clutch in it.

I'll try simulate a dry season to see what happens. Thanks again 👍🏼
 
#41 ·
Lol I'm just a cheapskate so every penny counts lol. Ye, I got the omega one flakes and now I realised what they mean when they say onky feed a "little". The tadpoles barely eats any and so when I put even a small flake they don't eat all of it and just spoils the water. I don't think think I can throw away the eggs so I'll just leave them there to be eaten. But even that, I don't think the tadpole can eat all of them....
 
#44 ·
Haha never thought of it like that. But you're right. I got these for £60 each from a shop. I'm assuming breeders sell them for around £30/40 to shops? I don't know. If I had known the breeder before I bought these from the shop he sold it to then I could've saved some money. I do know him now and he helps me with looking after them. I guess I haven't and didn't really want to start thinking about money yet. I still have to see if the 5 tadpoles will develop properly. If they do then maybe I'll start thinking of selling to to pay back for the money they costed me and to continue my 20g viv I'm building. I spent more on the vivarium setup than them lol.
 
#49 ·
Selling to stores is a last resort, for me, at least if the goal is to make money and protect the health of your animals. Selling to fellow hobbyists, whether shipping remotely, advertising locally, or at shows is the best way to get more money and have an influence on how your frogs are kept by their future owners. Stores I trust to take good care of my animals and make sure the their customers do that same are very rare.

Mark
 
#50 ·
Ye, I was thinking about this. Really don't want my babies to go to someone who have no experience with them, or the very least to have done research and prepared by setting up a bioactive vivarium. Even if I don't make money this is still the criteria I would look for who wants to care for the offsprings. Good point Mark.
 
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