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Strange U shaped lump

5K views 59 replies 11 participants last post by  PhylloBro 
#1 ·
#36 ·
Yea thats an accurate observation. I assumed it was just due to the frog growing naturally. I really cant wait to look at that part. We will have the answers here soon. Thank you all for all of the advice and concern. This is obviously new territory for me and i would be clueless without all of your input
 
#37 · (Edited)
This sounds simple enough for me.

Of course, fixing fresh tissue in 10% formalin will give you the best slides for histopathological examination. However, in the past we have fixed brain and liver tissue that had been stored at -70oC and the integrity of the tissue after fixation was very good.
Take ice cold 10% formalin (keep it on ice) and put your tissue straight from the freezer into the ice cold 10% formalin. Leave it in the fridge for 24 hours (depending on size of course) and than you an store it at room temperature. Good luck.

I should add, my freezing process was just popped in the fridge and then in the freezer after a couple days. xD We shall see what damage has occured. Fingers crossed.
 
#39 ·
So after more reading, the formalin is a longshot but it’s worth it. What it’s supposed to do I think is prevent even worse damage that occurs during thawing. Then it can be stored and observed at room temp with hopefully minimal damage. There will be damage from freezing but the thawing is what will really ruin the tissue.

The problem is, fixing something as large as an entire frog in formalin. It sounds like it’s possible but will take longer to penetrate.
 
#40 ·
So I am a veterinarian, I have done some training on the necropsy floor in vet school and autolysis and freezing will definitely cause a lot of issues on definitive diagnosis, yes there are some exceptions. Tissues submitted for immunohistochemistry (viral) will typically be frozen to keep the viral particles "intact". So if this was something like ranavirus and you wanted to submit tissue for IHC to a diagnostic lab - no problem. You won't be able to get many of the commercially needed stains for home use. You can buy gram stain but unlikely to be helpful.

I would cut into the scapular region, see if it is indeed a cutaneous nematode or if it was a dislocation injury. In freezing the tissues you distort all coloration that would be helpful in diagnosing if it was a pre-mortem injury or if it was the cause of death. Feel free to post pictures of what you find! I can see if I can help identify anything
 
#41 ·
Putting in formalin fixates the tissues, delaying the decomposition. Unless you have a microtome and wax fixation with H & E stain, fixating anything isn't going to be very helpful unless you send it to a lab.

It will probably cost a couple hundred dollars for IHC, or histopath. You really also need to know what your differential for cause of death is. If it is fungal, bacterial, etc. then fixating in formalin will not help you need fresh tissue.
 
#42 ·
Then i wont bother with the formalin unless i find something so bizarre in the scapular area that its worth saving to share with others. It came in today so im likely going to go through with it today. I will just let it thaw and then go in with the tools i have. I may still collect samples for the slides even if nothing can be diagnosed from them. At the very least they could demonstrate what happens to tissues after freeze/thaw. This is something i personally find very interesting.
 
#43 ·
So whats going on with this?

I dont buy the need to mail/do/ histology/freezing bs. This is what I find disappointing about internet forums.

Here we had a clear opportunity to at least LOOK at something. Everyone knows that freezing destroys tissue character.

I think you found Bones with helminths found or otherwise visual through collapsed autolytic tissue. It can be a jarring sight.

I think perhaps you did do a rough investigation and for some social /ego interfaced reason you wont be forthcoming.

I sure hope im wrong as Im sick of this bs.
 
#45 ·
Ive been more than transparent with this situation so for you to assume im not being forthcoming is beyond strange and offensive. Those assumptions are far out of line and really seem to come from nowhere. I personally dont care what "you buy", or "what you think x2". You dont know me. You only know what i have put out on this thread. Stick to the text, stop trying to imply things about other people.
 
#46 ·
I am going on only what you have posted - including the actual title of your querie " Strange U Shaped Lump" Anyone with the slenderest bent toward biological curiosity would have simply peeled the dermis back - I did such things at the age of 12. So did so many others here.

Especially when you have stated how comfortable you are with dissecting. Peeling a little swath of skin back wouldnt interfere at all with your histological "ponderings"
 
#49 · (Edited)
Are you sure you are going off of the thread? Originally, i wanted the vet to do a necropsy, so no, i was not planning on doing any dissection myself. After realizing this was not an option, i then decided to do it myself. Seeing as how i did not have tools or a scope on hand, i had to go and purchase one myself, adding a couple more days so i decided to move the frog to the freezer which i assumed would keep everything intact for later, i was wrong. Whoops. After learning that piece i turned to how i can preserve it for observation after being removed from the freezer. The formalin took some days to arrive, and then on the day it arrived i learned i was not qualified to carry that part out without proper equipment/material. This was Yesterday i believe. I discussed taking various samples before you added, "I dont think a complete histology series is expected." So you are wrong but what is your point? I thought it might actually bring some answers until i learned later i ruined those chances by freezing.

From what i am getting, you have it in your mind that A.) I anticipated my frog dying, B.) was prepared to dissect the frog immediately after death and C.) knew all of this information prior to my frogs death. This has been a learning process as i figured it would be and continues to be. I am not obligated to do any of this nor do i enjoy the idea of having to open up a beloved animal. Every reason for a delay is documented in this thread so again i dont know how you would get that im making stuff up to stall and make myself appear better? If that were the case i probably would not have even began this thread.
 
#56 · (Edited)
In my boots on the ground experiences, since 1981 having been teched and trained in the old fashioned way by the reptile veterinarian of the reptile collection Bronx Zoo, then later at the Ca Oakland Zoo, and my own conservative explorations. I do understand that a rough visual is not ideal but if visual parasites were visually apparent, it would be better than no visual investigation at all.

I will go out on a limb here and disclose that I have done as personal quest per rough necropsies, and have determined mechanical sub ingest, parasite, and even some other causes. (Polymer crystal ingestion, journaled)

I will go out on a limb even more to say that over exuberant supplementation causes harm, and is in vogue applied per presentation of worrisome mysteries of health matters. Causing toxicity and death - Rarely investigated.
 
#57 ·
Sorry for the huge delay I’ve been super busy with life stuff. Here are some pictures I took of Bones. As you can see, the light grey is the bone.
 

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#58 ·
Here is something interesting I found. Near the bone injury was this strange looking growth. It was like a bubble that wouldn’t pop. I could move it around and it would keep its shape. It’s possible I knicked something and didn’t notice but as far as I know it was present as soon as the bone was revealed. Here are pictures
 

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#59 ·
To prove that what the “U” was was actually bone, I removed it completely. Here is the scapular. I also removed a loose bone shard that was near the injury. I determined it was bone by feel so yeah lol but I’m positive it’s bone.
 

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