Tree frog friendly substrates that drain efficiently?

[Dillon Wascher]

I am due for a substrate change in my tree frog tanks. I currently use regular brown peat, but it holds water like a sponge and seems to trap all the waste at the surface. I want something more porous, that drains well, and is not dangerous for the frogs.
I know that ABG is a highly touted, efficiently draining substrate for darts, but it seems unsafe for tree frogs. I could see where it might be different for darts; they're much more smaller, much more nimble, and surgically zap tiny fruit flies with their tongue. My tree frogs, on the other hand, are quite aggressive feeders. When the crickets are dumped in, they pretty much attack. Diving mouth first off of a leaf into the substrate after a cricket is not uncommon! I can see them getting poked/punctured by the tree fern fiber if it's long fiber, ingesting it if it's short fiber, ingesting the orchid bark, or getting cut on a piece of charcoal.
I thought about making the ABG my self and layering the ingredients with the charcoal and orchid bark on the bottom, and the tree fern fiber in the middle hopefully holding the soft milled sphagnum and peat on top. But then, I'm pretty much in the same boat as before. It seems that the ingredients that make ABG drain so efficiently are the ones I would consider unsafe.
What I am looking for are suggestions/recipes/experiences on how to make a substrate that drains well and would be safe for tree frogs. Sorry for such a long-winded post, but I wanted to illustrate my dilemma with ABG because I am sure it has a lot of fans on this board. Thanks for reading.

[Ed]

Look at false bottoms and clay substrates, leaf litter and seeding heavily with isopods. It is normal for the frogs to swallow at least some substrate as this is an important source of minerals and potentially other nutrients like carotenoids in the wild. The goal is to walk the line where you don't have to worry about impaction.

Ed

[chuckpowell]

Why bother with a substrate at all. I keep my tree frogs over way with wood sticking out of the water and large leaved plants growing hydroponically. It works very well.

Best,

Chuck

[fieldnstream]

I have had good luck mixing equal parts coco fiber, long-fiber sphag, and orchid bark. For some frogs I have mixed in small amounts of sand, others I have used peat/fir bark. Never had an impaction problem (YET, don't wanna jinx myself). I would say that a false bottom will make a huge difference in keeping the substrate from getting too moist. If you have very aggressive feeders you could always bowl feed, it would greatly reduce the probability of substrate ingestion. Knowing what kind of frogs you keep would help with substrate recommendation.
Good Luck!

[Ed]

Originally Posted by chuckpowell

Why bother with a substrate at all. I keep my tree frogs over way with wood sticking out of the water and large leaved plants growing hydroponically. It works very well.

Best,

Chuck

I've done this as well and for some reason it slipped my mind. Thanks Chuck,


Ed

[jackxc925]

Use appropriate leaf litter and they won't touch the substrate

[hankvankat]

Hi, what do you use exactly? Do you have picture to share?

Thank you.

[jackxc925]

Originally Posted by hankvankat

Hi, what do you use exactly? Do you have picture to share?

Thank you.

If you were referring to me then this is what I use. The bottom is leca (1.5"), then weed gaurd (2-3 layers). Then two bags of ABG mix (mix it up before using)

The important part is leaf litter on top. I used live oak leaves. They are smaller which makes sense for thumbnail species. For larger treefrogs I would use sea grape leaves in combination with magnolia.






I should mention that I just planted this tank and haven't added any broms yet. No frogs in it right now either

[Dillon Wascher]

Thanks everyone, you've given me a lot of ideas!

[jwthought]

Originally Posted by chuckpowell

Why bother with a substrate at all. I keep my tree frogs over way with wood sticking out of the water and large leaved plants growing hydroponically. It works very well.

Best,

Chuck

I always had problems with dead feeders in the water when I used this technique, even when I bowl fed. How did you all deal with this?