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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2010, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Ed-

Im picking up a group next week. Count me in on the TWI project!
Shoot Mike Khadavi a e-mail and let him know.

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2010, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

So, does anyone have some pics of some set ups for them? I'd like to see how their tanks are set up.
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Old 02-07-2010, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

As of right now, I'll be getting a group of 7.
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

Looks as though someone has these for sale on Kingsnake right now. I hadn't seen them in years.
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Old 02-07-2010, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

With the current weather I realy do not want to have them shipped, so I am hoping to see a few available next weekend at NARBC.
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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With the current weather I realy do not want to have them shipped, so I am hoping to see a few available next weekend at NARBC.
Jason, remember that they can handle temps in the 40s/50s as evidenced by their locale and by the fact that to successfully breed them some folks have resorted to putting them in the fridge.
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Old 02-08-2010, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

Looks like I'll now be getting a group of 12.

Jason, don't know if there will be any up for sale at NARBC, but you can always stop by Josh's table and look at mine :P
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:01 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

I have been going to NARBC for several years now, what ever is new on Strictly Reptiles price list is usually available. This show will be smaller, so I am hoping the past holds true. I am thinking I may order a group tomorrow. I have been wanting them for sometime now.
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

They can take temps in the 20's although for a short period they handled them well this year.I hope all the buzz isnt going to cauz these to be treated like a throwaway.Goodluck and if any of you get bored because they wont breed like dendro's I will take them off your hands.
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Old 02-08-2010, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Originally Posted by trow View Post
They can take temps in the 20's although for a short period they handled them well this year.I hope all the buzz isnt going to cauz these to be treated like a throwaway.Goodluck and if any of you get bored because they wont breed like dendro's I will take them off your hands.
Hey Chad, I know you have been working with them for a while. Any tips for us newbies?
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

They are very easy to care food isn't an issue as they eat just about anything allthough mine get termites as the majority of there diet they eat all the standard that is offered to the hobby .The only issue is getting them to breed brumation is a must or you will not get any viable eggs you will get amplexus but nothing comes of it usually.Other than that they are cake and I am so glad they are available again now everyone can see what I do everyday.
I just hope this new interest will allow other species to trickle in as well.
Let the madness begin
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Originally Posted by trow View Post
They are very easy to care food isn't an issue as they eat just about anything allthough mine get termites as the majority of there diet they eat all the standard that is offered to the hobby .The only issue is getting them to breed brumation is a must or you will not get any viable eggs you will get amplexus but nothing comes of it usually.Other than that they are cake and I am so glad they are available again now everyone can see what I do everyday.
I just hope this new interest will allow other species to trickle in as well.
Let the madness begin
anyway you can post pics of thier set ups?
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Originally Posted by trow View Post
They are very easy to care food isn't an issue as they eat just about anything allthough mine get termites as the majority of there diet they eat all the standard that is offered to the hobby .The only issue is getting them to breed brumation is a must or you will not get any viable eggs you will get amplexus but nothing comes of it usually.Other than that they are cake and I am so glad they are available again now everyone can see what I do everyday.
I just hope this new interest will allow other species to trickle in as well.
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Old 02-09-2010, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Originally Posted by trow View Post
I just hope this new interest will allow other species to trickle in as well.
That would be nice, I would love to see some other species of melanophryniscus come in too, but I seriously doubt it will happen unless some person or group takes it upon themselves to get what ever permits are needed and collects them personally... That would be the best way of getting new species into the hobby since we could have locality data but due to paperwork and legal hassle it is unpractical. It is to bad other countries work with hobbyists so little. When they were being imported in large numbers before I tried to get some other species through the normal import channels and even offered quite a bit of money. I ran across a couple of individuals mixed in with groups of stelzneri that I strongly suspect were montevidensis but other than that nothing in several years of trying. Part of the problem is several of the most interesting species of melanophryniscus come from southern brazil(almost or completely impossible to legally get anything from there) and many are reportedly rare but who knows for sure. Far to little research to know in many cases.

Last edited by SethDoty; 02-09-2010 at 02:12 AM.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 04:55 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

I have tried as well but maybe brazil will get off the save the world horse and allow a limited amount of certain species that are not endangered out of their country.I am so curious to see what all the bbtoad buzz will bring.
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad?slightly OT

Brazil and other Latin American countries would not have so many issues with exporting these animals if it wasn't for the entire ebidobatine debacle and the failure of the US to ratify the Biopiracy treaty. It has nothing to do with saving the world and everything to do with a perception that something will be discovered and the country where they came from denied any benefits.

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Old 02-09-2010, 05:40 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

I wouldn't ratify the Biopiracy treaty either. Countries have and should have the ability to pass laws to protect their resources from over exploitation as needed but many governments have a ridiculous level of paranoia that "foreigners" will "steal" something from them even though they might not value it at all. Sometimes they have just cause to worry based on past history but sometimes they become so paranoid that they essentially prevent everyone from doing anything even when it would be for the general good. The end result of that is a waste... They are doing their country no favors either... It is to bad they don't more often take the sensible middle ground of carefully regulating and using their natural resources for profit and the good of their countries and instead hoarding and wasting them. They are sovereign countries, it is their right to do that if they want, but it is a shame...
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

I have six of these guys comeing tommorow, I cant wait to see how they look, I read ground coco fiber can be used for them and that is what i have in the tank but the stuff seems quite course with long pieces in it, is there a risk of them getting entangled or ingesting it? can mel FFs or pin heads be there main/sole diet? theres not much here aside from ffs I do have some springs and I might be abel to get bean weevils but thats about it,

also I had not thought of it but dos anyone know about these guys and chytrid, should I try and treat them sence there WC?
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

Since I see so many people purchasing them, I am going to refrain from buying any in hopes some of you will CB them. Some of the people in this tread have the ability so I am going to wait. I hope you breed some stemcell, I live in MA and would love to have someone close by to breed these. Your work with Mantellas is really amazing. Good luck to everyone.
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Originally Posted by SethDoty View Post
I wouldn't ratify the Biopiracy treaty either. Countries have and should have the ability to pass laws to protect their resources from over exploitation as needed but many governments have a ridiculous level of paranoia that "foreigners" will "steal" something from them even though they might not value it at all. Sometimes they have just cause to worry based on past history but sometimes they become so paranoid that they essentially prevent everyone from doing anything even when it would be for the general good. The end result of that is a waste... They are doing their country no favors either... It is to bad they don't more often take the sensible middle ground of carefully regulating and using their natural resources for profit and the good of their countries and instead hoarding and wasting them. They are sovereign countries, it is their right to do that if they want, but it is a shame...
Well, I can't say that I blame the policies put down by some of those countries given the way they have been treated with these respects. The epidobatine is one of the ones that hit the big time..
Some reasearchers and some members of the hobby haven't done the entire process any good either when the level of smuggling is taken into consideration, or when people show up in a country collect a bunch of animals (this used to be a bigger problem with novel fish species), leave the country with them (with or without permits) and describe new species without sharing any of the collected material with the country of origin or give any credit to the country of origin...
This resulted in a backlash, where researchers working in those countries need to hire x number of grad students to work with them, collaborate with researchers in country, and collect x number of animals for each sample they intend to collect for deposition into thier museums for research.

This is a backlash that was due to the actions performed in those countries... and we have to live with the results.

I don't like it as it does hamper conservation (and other work) but we have to live with the results. It also does not help when newly described species can show up for sale within a matter of a week or two after it has been described regardless of the collection regulations in that country or whether or not permits to collect were issued..... Often institutions cannot get permits for those animals either because of the perceptions.

But that is all I am going to say on this issue.

Ed
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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

maybe I'm out of the loop or just didnt read this thread as well as i shouldve but - is everybody getting these from the smae place or are you guys going through various sources?
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2010, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

Thanks, I'll do my best.

All ten arrived in perfect form this morning. Really gorgeous, amazing little frogs. I'll snap some pictures and maybe even a video (oh!) this evening when I get home from work.
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

Mine are hung up at the airport. F my life.....
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Originally Posted by MonkeyFrogMan28 View Post
Since I see so many people purchasing them, I am going to refrain from buying any in hopes some of you will CB them. Some of the people in this tread have the ability so I am going to wait. I hope you breed some stemcell, I live in MA and would love to have someone close by to breed these. Your work with Mantellas is really amazing. Good luck to everyone.

Hopefully they will be able to take hold, however judging by the number of noobs posting in this thread I see a repeat of last time.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Hopefully they will be able to take hold, however judging by the number of noobs posting in this thread I see a repeat of last time.
Considering that a ton of TWI folks are getting them (and that they are coming in with sufficient fat reserves) I think we stand a good chance of successful breeding and/or captive management. However, stimulating desire for their offspring will be a whole other bag (if mantellas are any indication).
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Old 02-09-2010, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

I'll be interested in offspring!
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Old 02-09-2010, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

After 2 years and 5 months of searching and sending maybe 100 emails over that time I had 15 arrive today. All seem to be well but one is thin and all are eating. I tried to breed these years back using a rain chamber. They went into amplexus but no eggs. The next time I will try cooling half of them, in my refriderator set up for hibenating my Gilas at 57 degrees, for a few days before trying to breed and try to wait for a rainy day outside before introducing them to the rain chamber. Ater discussing breeding my Pipa Pipa (Surinam Toads) with someone, maybe TROW, I was told that I should change the water at the time it was raining outside with cooler room temperature water and this would stimulate breeding and it worked. Unfortunately I only had two make it to froglet and then lost both of them.
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:39 PM
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

Hey,

While I'm stoked to see all the interest in these cool little frogs (and getting long-term captive culture going), I just want to make sure that there is at least some consideration of how the collection is going down.

I'll say up front: I have no knowledge of this particular importation/importer. It won't stop me from guessing (based on the biology of the genus) that these wild caught frogs are getting snatched up from breeding aggregations. The "economics" of breeding aggregation harvests are well known, published on, and particularly gruesome when it comes to population declines.

Think twice, and then a third time, before purchasing wild-caught frogs- even if you have the best of intentions (and I believe you do), the purchase may be funding an unsustainable harvest and doing serious damage to populations or species. It is worth knowing more about.

-Afemoralis
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Nice, Devanny!
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

I just picked up my toads! All seven look nice & healthy! I have them in a 20 gallon with paper towel & plant clippings so I can get a fecal done. Then I'll put the toads in a 40 breeder. I'm glad to see everyone so interested in them! I'll post some pics tonight.
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Old 02-09-2010, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

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Originally Posted by Afemoralis View Post
Hey,

While I'm stoked to see all the interest in these cool little frogs (and getting long-term captive culture going), I just want to make sure that there is at least some consideration of how the collection is going down.

I'll say up front: I have no knowledge of this particular importation/importer. It won't stop me from guessing (based on the biology of the genus) that these wild caught frogs are getting snatched up from breeding aggregations. The "economics" of breeding aggregation harvests are well known, published on, and particularly gruesome when it comes to population declines.

Think twice, and then a third time, before purchasing wild-caught frogs- even if you have the best of intentions (and I believe you do), the purchase may be funding an unsustainable harvest and doing serious damage to populations or species. It is worth knowing more about.

-Afemoralis
I strongly suspect this particular species is in little real danger in the wild based on what I know of the species and from some past personal communications with some folks down there. In past importations a significant portion of the individuals imported were sub adults. This time things appear the same. I am not sure of the collection mechanism but breeding aggregations seem unlikely since so many juveniles are imported.
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

I've come across a couple references that suggested these toads breed around October, so I doubt they are being grabbed from breeding aggregations.
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

On the note of determining the collection mechanism, you who have received some already, what is the average SVL? I ended up getting some more today(7) and two were about 25mm and the rest were just under 20mm. From when I was breeding them that suggests about six month old frogs unless these come from a population that has smaller adults. I am interested to see aprox. how many are adults and how many are juveniles. I think mine will need at least a year or so to grow up completely.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

Well, mine finally arrived after a 5 hour delay due to the weather. The heat pack was spent and my first impression upon inspecting them was that they were dead. I moved them into individual quarantine containers anyway and within an hour they all started moving around. Then, while I was checking on them a couple hours later I noticed my little grey cat was really interested in the shipping container left on the floor. I reached down and picked it up, and another toad was crawling around in it! I guess he was hitchhiking in the moss. Anyhow, I will try and measure them and get some pics tonight, but all of them are under 25mm for sure, with most being around 20mm.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

A year is a good estimate these are far to small to breed although you may hear a stray chirp from a boisterous teenager which is what they are size wise.
I say sit back relax and enjoy the toads worry about collection methods later
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

I have to find it, but I seem to remember a paper that discussed movement across roads and mortality. These may be road collected juveniles as they move from one habitat to another habitat. This could result in the discrepency seen in the age groups.

Also chytrid has been documented in at least one other species of Melanophryniscus (see Ferreira, T. K., Lamarão, F. R. M., Moraes, M. O. & van Sluys, M. (2008) Amphibian chytrid infection in Melanophryniscus moreirae (Bufonidae) in the Brazilian Atlantic rainforest. Herpetol. Rev: 39; 445-446.) so testing should be considered for imports.

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Old 02-10-2010, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

So all toads should be tested for fungus & parasites ! Here's two pic's I took of some of them.
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

Nicee cant wait to get mine on saturday!!!
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Bumble bee toad

I want some!
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