Interesting read on global warming

[kyle1745]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnist ... =110009693

Some quotes from the article:

Today our climate is 1/20th of a degree Fahrenheit warmer than it was in 2001.

...a NASA study reports that solar radiation has increased in each of the past two decades, and environmental scholar Bjorn Lomborg, citing a 1997 atmosphere-ocean general circulation model, observes that "the increase in direct solar irradiation over the past 30 years is responsible for about 40 percent of the observed global warming."

The IPCC does not explain why from 1940 to 1975, while carbon dioxide emissions were rising, global temperatures were falling, nor does it admit that its 2001 "hockey stick" graph showing a dramatic temperature increase beginning in 1970s had omitted the Little Ice Age and Medieval Warming temperature changes, apparently in order to make the new global warming increases appear more dramatic.

[christina hanson]

Hi Kyle,

If you search the web about the organization that this author is Chairman of (National Center for Policy Analysis), his credibility begins to wane. Here's an citation about some of their funding coming from Exxon Mobil.

http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.php?id=55

Again, always question the credibility of the source.

Christina

[kyle1745]

While I agree with questioning the creditability of the source I think it maybe more important to question the credibility of the data. There is always 2 sides to every story and everyone is as corrupt as the next when it comes to this stuff.

My concern with this very topic is the gloom and doom mentality of our media, and the support it gets from the public. Does that mean the facts are not true? No, but they are stretched and expressed in a way that makes things seem much worse than they really are. I personally believe there is more truth to the "solar radiation" and general cycle of things than many want to give credit to and or can prove or disprove. It just can not be forgotten as while we do play a part, our part may not be nearly as bad as it seems.

[joshsfrogs]

I think the sad part of the global warming issue is the whackos on both sides of the issue. It is hard for the average person to wade through the all the crap (passed on as scientific data) and see the real effects and causes (and degrees of causation) of global warming. There is just too much emotion in the issue. It really is sad.

I have to admit, I haven't taken the time to dig into the issue and look at all the "facts". Somehow in the hussle and bussle, this issue seems too far away to devote any time to it. Time to make some new goals to be greener...

The idiotic masses
+
money-driven media (the source of "facts" for the average person who has a finacial incentive to sensationalize everything - did anyone see last nights 20/20 on ABC?)
+
scientists not trained to debate (lack of philosophy training - using the dirty words "we KNOW...", fallacies galore, etc.).
+
politics
=
a gigantic mess the vast majority of people are not going to wade through nor have the resources available even if they wanted to.

Just my $.02...

[elmoisfive]

Kyle,

The debate on global warming and its causes generates much passion and unfortunately spills over into and is dominated by political agendas. Despite all that it is clear that within recent history, climatic change is leading to rather dramatic results. I tend to focus on early warning signs in the Artic and Antarctic as opposed to watching people debate overall global temperature change that can obscure the real issue.

I try to be practical here. Let's say for the sake of argument that the overall global warming trend is a function of both changes in solar output, macroscopic global climate cycles and increases in greenhouse gases. The one factor we (humans) can control are greenhouse gases. Personally I suspect that the greenhouse gas increase probably represents the tipping point between serious but survivable climate change and something much worse.

Even if one wanted to shrug off the implications for plants and animals in general (which I don't), the implications for humans aren't very pleasant. 9+ billion people living on a planet where divide between the haves and have nots in terms of access to basic necessities of food and water is a ripe breeding ground for war, disease and terrorism. Not much of a legacy to bequeath to our children and grandchildren.

I'm 48 now and while I don't enjoy the idea of growing old, there is a part of me that selfishly welcomes the fact that I likely won't be alive when the worst of the sh*t hits the fan. But I fear for my children and their children....I truly do.

Bill

[kyle1745]

Josh,

You are correct, and put it much better than I did. :-)

I think both sides have facts that play a part, and Id bet if put together properly not a whole lot we can do about it. Thats not to say we don't control what we can, but there maybe a good bit we can't.

[kyle1745]

Bill,

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to shrug any of it off, but I do think scientists owe us the whole truth, and to include all the factors. I'm sure we as humans play a part and we all need to do our part to help out, but I think the politics and hidden agendas get in the way of the truth.

[Rain_Frog]

I hope we realize that global warming in the end may NOT be our demise. The gulf stream is slowly shutting down because of global warming, which could result in an ice age eventually. This winter was colder and wetter than normal (for instance, NY was hit hard by lots of precipitation from global warming).

[Rambo67]

This winter was colder and wetter than normal

Are you saying this for your area or the nation as a whole? If the nation, id have to disagree. I know a lot of the east got off to a late start this winter, we hit 70 here in mid January (which, of course, may not be saying much for the global warming issue) and got relatively normal amounts of precip. Im by no means shrugging it off, but currently Im not so sure if we can link things like NYs snowfall amounts to global warming instantly. Abnormal weather events do occur naturally, so I think its hard to pinpoint it to warming. Ive also heard El Nino thrown around earlier this year, but thats another story.

That said, its hard for an average Joe like myself to see through all of the biased "scientific" data being presented to us.

[stchupa]

Originally Posted by Rambo67

Yeah, sure in your localization. They key word here is global. The earth is doing all it can to equalize before it throws out, as a last ditch effort, before it gives up and rids itself of its' parasites. Layers are switching. The production range is increasing. Deserts and rainforests are soon to share a given amount of precip. There will be no split off in uniqueness between once seperate environments. They will be level and spread
out (mingle). I think of the layers of Jupiter when I see the world today, the flow be straight and without varying contour to the stream. Even spread out. Each thin band or layer being it's own climate, instead of having varying climates (such as temperate, desert and tropical) Sharing the same latitude. WE will be at the mercy of the Earth's position to the sun that'll determine differing climates.

Something that corrasponds to 'the switching of layers' I was speaking of and absolute proof, is that Canada and Siberia (just to name a couple), North latitude to us, same latitude to each other (opposite sides of Earth). Both. In fact mostly everywhere w/in that latitude have had the DRIEST and WARMEST winter on record.
Then again, lower parts of Canada (our band THIS year) has seen the heaviest snow on record. So heavy the Moose (an animal adapted to this climate) have become trapped in their own environment and the ones that were lucky enough not to get trapped/starved must use paved roads to get around.

When was the last time you remember seing the U.S. sharing this type of precip. and still having tornados (at least) every week IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER.

This is nothing to debate, we throw out the ones that are blind (mind's eye) and the ones that see, DISCUSS and work off what they know. We require those that disagree to come up w/ a solution?
A debate to this is just a side track to what we should focus on. It'll never get us anywhere. The people that still debate it are the ones that would never except the fact, no matter how much proof is put before them. It is their duty to make sure we solve nothing. It'll still be a debate until the last second, I give you my word on that.

[quote:md32ftoq]Are you saying this for your area or the nation as a whole? If the nation, id have to disagree. I know a lot of the east got off to a late start this winter, we hit 70 here in mid January (which, of course, may not be saying much for the global warming issue) and got relatively normal amounts of precip.

Yeah, 70 one day, snow the next, and then the tornados right after. Every time I called up to MA their were tornados expected. Usually

only

around ten or so, A DAY

Im by no means shrugging it off, but currently Im not so sure if we can link things like NYs snowfall amounts to global warming instantly. Abnormal weather events do occur naturally, so I think its hard to pinpoint it to warming. Ive also heard El Nino thrown around earlier this year, but thats another story.

TheYuse that to spur thought it's only a repeat of the process. El Nino doesn't exist, it was a name given for the happening OF THAT TIME PERIOD.

Call it what you want, if you 'believe' that you'll 'believe' anything.

That said, its hard for an average Joe like myself to see through all of the biased "scientific" data being presented to us.

[/quote:md32ftoq]

Look out your window, take a road trip.

Try to keep in mind why this label was given and who presented/picked it. They know how to use words and what phrases to use to get the "appropriate" reaction. They could have called what it actually is, but that wouldn't be very subtle would it. The reaction would've been action. The flow/focus of our society would be completely altered or even halted.

Call it what you want, I would never use ANY of the terms given, for me it NO name. That's the focus of everyone else instead of the effects/problemo.

What is that you're missing/looking for, it's all right there, you're in it. What more?

OPEN SHUT.