clay vs epiweb drip wall for mosses and epiphytes

the_deeb · #1 (**permalink**) 03-22-2010, 06:14 AM

I'm in the early stages of planning out a future paludarium project. The back wall and one side of the tank will be drip walls that will be fed with filtered water from the aquarium section. Eventually, I'd like the drip walls to be entirely covered with mosses and ferns.

In my experience, plants don't root particularly well into GS/coir backgrounds and I've heard that ACE binder doesn't hold up well under constant flow. So I'm trying to decide between an Epiweb type background or a bentonite clay background. In your experience, which is best for plant growth?

frogparty · #2 (**permalink**) 03-22-2010, 07:19 AM

having never used clay, i cant say for sure, but Id bet most epiphyte roots would be more prone to grow well with epiweb vs clay. CVlay doesnt allow for air around roots very well. Im sure ferns and the like would do better than orchids. Moss will probably actually do better quicker on the clay

tachikoma · #3 (**permalink**) 03-22-2010, 07:40 AM

Call me skeptical but I have yet to see any thriving moss covered epiweb backgrounds aside from the one on the manufacturers site. Has anyone else had any confirmed moss covered success with epiweb? I see it gaining a lot of popularity but in all honesty I am not convinced yet of it's potential as a suitable background for moss. If anyone has any links or images please speak up. I want to believe lol!

Ed · #4 (**permalink**) 03-22-2010, 12:13 PM

If you are concerned about the roots of the bromeliads (although I have bromeliads rooted directly into clay substrates as opposed to drip walls) in a clay drip wall, a small piece of tree fern fiber or epiweb can be secured to the background to allow for pocket planting of epiphytes that you are concerned may rot.

Ed

the_deeb · #5 (**permalink**) 03-22-2010, 08:10 PM

Thanks for the responses. Similar to Ed's suggestion, I'm planning on having some artificial branches protruding out from the dripwall which will offer drier spots for broms, orchids and other epiphytes that may not appreciated the constant water flow.

However, I'd like the dripwall to provide an entirely moss covered backdrop for these plants, hence my question. Based on your responses it sounds like clay may be the better option. Given the constant water flow and the potential nutrient load of the aquarium water I'm thinking emersed aquatic "moss" (eg. riccia, christimas moss and willow moss) will probably be better suited to this than true terrestrial moss. I know people have had luck growing this stuff under constant flow on epiweb-like materials. In this example a person sandwiched the moss between aquarium filter foam and plastic window screening under a filter outleft. The moss eventually grew through the screen quite nicely:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...y-tank-18.html

Has anyone had any experience growing these aquatic moss species on clay dripwalls?

Ed · #6 (**permalink**) 03-22-2010, 09:23 PM

If you mix peat into the clay for the drip wall and have bright light on the tank, the moss will grow from the peat mix. If you take some treefern panel and break it up and add it to the clay mix, then you should get a variety of mosses and ferns from the mix.

Ed

gold3nku5h · #7 (**permalink**) 03-30-2010, 06:04 AM

Im basically doing the same thing, but i have gone with usuing the GS expanding foam, except for the pond type, its black, and three times more expensive. It doesnt change colors due to UV so it should always be black if something happens with the layers on top. After i get it sprayed, expanded and dried, i shaped it with a small exacto knife to look more natural and rigid. After that i got about 4 or 5 different colors of silicone GE II, i think this stuff cures to be innert. I dont have frogs either. I will put that over the GS foam and mix the colors lightly to give a nice natural rock look. This is the best method i have ever seen for doing fake natural rocks. If i want something to grow, i will put some peat moss over the drying silicone so that it sticks to that. I am only worried about moss, ferns, and some epiphytic ferns and plants to grow over this, so the peat should work fine once held in place by the dried silicone. Search 10g brackish on vivariumforum.com or whatever that other one is, he has a detailed construction of this basic rundown. Most valuable info i have found to date for the -ariums.

Brien · #8 (**permalink**) 03-30-2010, 06:14 AM

Moss will grow like crazy on epiweb I have done it and will post a picture tommarow as soon as the lights come on. I used the dusktropics mix I layer a panel down then spread the dry mix on then water it and it will stick to the panel easily. I did have one set back and i let it dry out a bit but it has came back. I will post pic tommarow.

the_deeb · #9 (**permalink**) 04-05-2010, 05:11 AM

Looking forward to those pics brien. Any more info on your setup? Are you running the epiweb as a dripwall?

Brien · #10 (**permalink**) 04-05-2010, 06:54 AM

Sorry have been super busy but I use epiweb and love it except for the long grow time. I use a shop light with daylight bulbs and a mistking watering every 4 1/2 hours. I had a lot more growth but I let it dry out and its just now coming back. I have been looking for the moss mix but cant find anymore. If you have any question let me know.