Various Questions

[Azriel]

For starters, here's my tank:


I'm having a few problems with it. First, I have a lot of riccia on the background and on the ground of the viv that I'm trying to keep wet so it grows. At the same time, I have a lot of lemon button fern in the viv, which I've recently learned doesn't like having water sit on the leaves. So I cut back the auto-mister to twice a day for 30 seconds. Then I mist just the riccia by hand about three times a day. I also try to shake the water off the ferns once a day so they dry out.

This kind of defeats the purpose of having an auto misting system though, so I'm wondering if it would be best to just remove the ferns and go with a similar plant that can tolerate water sitting on the leaves. I love the look of the lemon button fern, but not at cost of my riccia! So does anyone know of any plants with a similar look and growth habit to lemon button fern that I could replace them with, and one that would tolerate water on the leaves?

The second issue is keeping the front glass clear. It's always at least halfway covered by condensation. I have one 80mm fan hidden inside the tree stump that blows air at the middle/top of the front glass, and this seems to keep that area dry. But everywhere else is full of condensation. Can I stack another 80mm fan on top of that one, or will that not be very efficient? If not, I may have to look at adding some free-standing fans aimed at the front glass. I wanted to avoid that because I think it would look bad, but at the same time, I would like to be able to see in the tank too. Can anyone think of any solutions that would keep the fans hidden, and keep the glass clear? This is an Exo-terra, so it does have a narrow vent at the bottom of the doors.

Lastly, my Exo-terra digital hygrometer says humidity is only at 70-75% (ranges throughout the day). The highest I have seen it at was about 80%, and that's when I was misting more often. Is this humid enough?

Temps in the tank are also very high because of the lights, could that be contributing to the condensation problem? I'm planning on cutting a hole in the Exo-terra canopy to install a fan to cool down the lights, I just haven't gotten to it yet.

[fishgas4]

I would use the auto mist system you have in place. Perhaps adjust the nozzles and relocate the ferns to a dryer spot. Condensation = humidity. Its just the way of the viv.

[Azriel]

Originally Posted by fishgas4

I would use the auto mist system you have in place. Perhaps adjust the nozzles and relocate the ferns to a dryer spot. Condensation = humidity. Its just the way of the viv.

Thanks for the input, but there is no way to reposition the mistheads so they spray only the riccia and not the ferns, I already tried that. When the misting turns on, it's such a fine mist that it goes everywhere in the tank, even with the fan turned off.

Also I believe there is some discussion about whether condensation on the glass relates directly to the humidity level in the tank. Keep in mind, mine is only at 70-75% humidity. I think I have read people saying a lot of condensation can be caused by temperature difference between air inside the tank and air outside of it. But I was hoping someone could clarify that for me or give fan placement/camouflaging suggestions.

[Pumilo]

Hey Jennie, I looked back to your other threads to see if I could help some. I see some possible issues with your fan system. You have an 80mm fan mounted midway through the stump. Now it's hard to tell from the pictures, but is the intake hole at the bottom of the stump as large as the fan itself it? Is the output hole at the top as big as the hole is? They don't appear to be. That could significantly reduce your airflow. Then we have to ask about the mesh, too. The tighter the screen mesh, the less flow you get through it. Some mesh can reduce your flow quite a bit.
I can't find what CFM your fan is. Oh, and how big is your viv?

If your viv is a good bit warmer than the room it is in, that will also aggravate the condensation.
I don't use riccia myself, but if it needs to stay moist, perhaps some sphagnum under/behind it would help keep it moist so you could mist a little less.
I use lemon ferns in my vivs and I mist several times a day. They do fine as long as they are in a very well drained substrate. My vivs do have passive vent screens though, and that helps. The do fine in vivs both with fans, and in vivs without, but they all have vents.

[Azriel]

Oops, sorry I should have given more information. Here is a link to the fan I have:
SilverStone Technology Co., Ltd.- SUSCOOL81
The webpage says:
28.55 CFM @60℃
14.68CFM @31℃

The tank is roughly 65 gallons, it's the 36x18x24 Exo-terra. The fan intake hole is slightly smaller than the fan (counting just the blades part, not the square housing for the blades). The outflow hole is slightly larger, but rectangular in shape rather than circular. Darn, wish I would have known these things were important before I started! You're right, the fan is halfway down the tree trunk, and yes the intake hole is right above the substrate level. I have two layers of mesh covering the outflow and intake holes. At this point, it would be really tough to change anything about the intake and outflow holes as everything is pretty permanent and in place now. :/ Do you think there's anything I can do to work around these limitations?

I'll try to bring down the air temp in the tank, and hopefully that will clear up some of the condensation. My lemon button ferns are planted in ABG substrate, so that should be well draining enough. I had heard a few people say that ferns in general don't like to have water sitting on their leaves constantly, so I've been worried. But I think what I'll do is just increase the misting anyway and see what happens. I won't be too bummed if the ferns die, but I'd be pretty upset if the riccia died, so...

Thanks for the help Doug!

[Pumilo]

Hey Jennie, answers in red.

Originally Posted by Azriel

Oops, sorry I should have given more information. Here is a link to the fan I have:
SilverStone Technology Co., Ltd.- SUSCOOL81
The webpage says:
28.55 CFM @60℃
14.68CFM @31℃

The tank is roughly 65 gallons, it's the 36x18x24 Exo-terra. The fan intake hole is slightly smaller than the fan (counting just the blades part, not the square housing for the blades). The outflow hole is slightly larger, but rectangular in shape rather than circular. Darn, wish I would have known these things were important before I started! You're right, the fan is halfway down the tree trunk, and yes the intake hole is right above the substrate level. I have two layers of mesh covering the outflow and intake holes. At this point, it would be really tough to change anything about the intake and outflow holes as everything is pretty permanent and in place now. :/ Do you think there's anything I can do to work around these limitations?

Yes, for starters, can you possibly modify your mesh? I'm not there to see it but with two layers I'm going to assume there is some flow blockage. If you can take an exacto knife, you could carefully slice out some of the strands. Make sure that you don't cut anything big enough for a frog to fit through. You don't care if some flies are able to get through.
Next issue, how accessible is your fan? I'm afraid it is a poor choice for a fan. It looks like it is internally thermal regulated. Lets turn the C, into F. 31 C is 88 F and 60 C is 140 F. So at 88 degrees F your fan will put out 15 CFM. It better not ever hit 140 or you've got bigger problems than foggy glass!! Most of us will strive to keep our vivs below 80 F though, so you aren't even cranking that 15 CFM, that's assuming you are running 12v. There are no lower range stats to look at so we aren't sure. To give you a comparison, my chosen fans are smaller, at only 60mm but they put out 21.5 CFM. My size fan is working fine in my 25 vivs and also is a good size for my 40 gallon Euros. It seems to be just a little undersized for my 75 gallon corner display. Comparing mine to yours, that tells me that your fan (which is essentially a 15 CFM fan) is simply going to be too small for your viv size. Granted, any air motion is better than none, but it's probably not going to be enough to keep the glass clear most of the time. I've been happy with my NMB so I did a quick search for you. This one 3110KL-04W-B50 - DC Axial Fans - NMB Technologies Corporation pushes 39 CFM at 12V. Enough that you'll probably end up turning it down. Here it is on eBay for a whopping $7.50 shipped eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices Being an 80mm, like yours, it should drop right in. I like to use an adjustable, universal AC adapter. This lets you turn the voltage down to 9v, or 7v, thus turning down the speed and CFM. You'll probably want some sort of adjustability with this fan. It pushes a lot of air.

I'll try to bring down the air temp in the tank, and hopefully that will clear up some of the condensation.

Condensation seems to be worse on new vivs for some reason. It may settle down some after a few weeks.

My lemon button ferns are planted in ABG substrate, so that should be well draining enough. I had heard a few people say that ferns in general don't like to have water sitting on their leaves constantly, so I've been worried. But I think what I'll do is just increase the misting anyway and see what happens. I won't be too bummed if the ferns die, but I'd be pretty upset if the riccia died, so...

My Lemon Buttons will sometimes die back a good bit in the beginning, but then come back strong from new runners. Perhaps the new growth is getting used to the higher humidity?

Thanks for the help Doug!

Any time Jennie!

[Rusty_Shackleford]

Jennie,
Just from my own personal experience, those Exo-Terra Thermometer/Hygrometers aren't worth a crap. I've already wasted money on them too.

[Pumilo]

You don't need a hygrometer. You have condensation and standing water on the leaves, there is plenty of humidity.

[sports_doc]

Jennie

U may not like this answer but...

sometimes you have to buy the plants to suit your growing conditions rather then the other way around...

if the fern doesnt do well then remove it....

I would also switch to LED to cut down on heat off the lights if you havent already thought of that option.