I agree that it is good - but it is too "rich" in comparison to what we are trying to emulate. Plants grow way too fast in it. I'm kind of weird in that I want my plants to grow slower (I pluck and toss plants that grow too fast).

Of course us saying we're trying to emulate a jungle in a small box is pretty ridiculous as well.

One excellent use for "used" ABG mix is for use in flower pots. I used mine mainly in African Violet pots. For those you need a "light" soil, and ABG works splendidly.

s

 

Sure, a clay substrate is closer to the real thing, but not everybody is ready to put in the time it takes to make a good clay substrate. Frogboy and I are experimenting with clay substrates in several vivs too. Here is what we are working with. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63732-clay-substrate-how.html
But for an organic mix, I think it's hard to beat.

 

It's an excellent substrate. Used if for 16/17 years myself.

s

 

What are you using now?

 

He's talking nutrient poor, so Scott is most likely referring to a clay substrate.

 

Can all of the ingredents be picked up at a Home Depot or Lowes to make this mix?

 

Everything but the tree fern fiber, you'll have to get that online most likely, or leave it out/ substitute coco fiber.

 

Thanks for the info Frogboy. I usually do not use "soil" in my vivs, as I have seen lots of gnats in the soil. Have you experienced any issues with soil gnats? I just use premium New Zealand spagnum moss, reptile bark and lots of leaf litter. Great thread too!!

 

Are soil gnats just gnats that come hatch out from the substrate?

 

I am Frogboy's dad. I have some answers for you. The tree fern fiber adds aeration and drainage. I don't think cocofiber would be an acceptable substitute for the tree fern. For the peat and sphagnum maybe, but not the tree fern. I feel that the tree fern is an important part of AGB.
First, AGB Mix is available at Josh's frogs.
Second, Every component for AGB is available at good prices, here. OFE International Web Page

Colleen, as you mentioned, just about every soil mix can have fungus gnats. ABG can have them too. They will clear up after a short amount of time. They may be present for a month or so, but they have cleared out of every viv I've ever set up, soon enough.

 

I would definitely work on advancing it if you can. Part of the fun of this hobby is the hands on part of it. Trial and error. I have mixed clay into my own version of the ABG mix and the micro fauna exploded. I live near ABG and have been by there more than my share of times to talk substrate and plants. They seem to be set in their own mix so I say there is always room for improvement.

Michael

 

Michael...I was thinking the same thing about adding clay and maybe some sand to the current ABG mix. What type of clay are you using and how much are you adding? I'd be interested to hear your substrate recipe as the exploding micro fauna has peaked my interest.

Are the ABG ingredients listed on this thread the same ABG mixture that Josh's Frogs sell?

David

 

Josh's mix appears to be made according to this recipe.

 

not sure if his includes ground charcoal as well, but the stuff i got had chunks of charcoal. My first experience with ABG, we'll see how it goes. I also came up a bit short for all three of my tanks so I cut it with a little extra coco soil

 

I do a mix of half ABG mix and half hand crushed leaf litter (oak from my backyard) for my isopod cultures and they are flourishing in it!

 

About how much clay added? My first tanks were done with "by the book" ABG mix...was/am pleased with the results. Tried clay substrate, and am not pleased with how the plants responded (which has been poor). The purported benefits of clay for the animals is the reason to use it, but, in me experience, plants hate it.

 

I add in 1/4 the volume of the ABG of clay. So 4 1 gallon bucket of AGB, I mix in 1 bucket of clay and a bucket of shredded leaf litter. Same with the shredded seas grape leaves. It has shown great increase in micro fauna and plant growth so long as there is decent drainage. I have broms planted in the media doing well.

Michael

 

As long as you're adding things - add leaf mulch (leaf mold). Just take maple or oak leaves and throw them in the blender for a few moments.

We know that's what the fauna we want in our tanks likes to eat - so just add it to the soil mix!

s

 

Thanks for the blender tip!

 

how milled is the sphag moss? like fine coco fiber? almost powder?
or just slightly milled?
like this?

i guess "fine" tree fern fiber refers to the "short" fiber referred to on the website?

 

Yep, that's it.

... i guess "fine" tree fern fiber refers to the "short" fiber referred to on the website?

 

How do you mill it? Blender?

 

Milled sphagnum is often available as a separate product. It is called damp off also.

I used to find it in a couple of specialty type places (Agway in New England). Your smaller lawn and garden places (not the BIG places - though it never hurts to check).

You can create it by putting sphagnum moss through the blender. It's the lower left product in the picture just above.

s

 

Anyone have a good source for clay? Do they have a dry unmixed version or does it come in solid blocks? If solid, how do you work with it to mix it into the ABG mix?

David

 

You can check this thread for a clay source.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/61016-clay-distributors-near-you.html

 

Just mixing any old clay into it is not going to give you the benefits of calcium enrichment that clay substrates are known for. Calcium Bentonite may offer some of the benefits. All my suppliers are listed in my already referenced thread.

 

Thanks...that's good to know.

 

I'm glad you posted this frogboy

I mixed some up with everything but the tree ferns
I'll have to add it later when I get some.

What I was using before this for my potted plants was peatmoss, perlite, charcoal, and sphagnum.

I hate how exspensive sphagnum is lol.

My soil doesn't quite look like yours. Yours looks a bit more twiggy lol.
Here is a pic of mine

 

In my experience, ABG in non-flow through enclosures is fairly stable although if there is a good microfauna content I see it compacting over time. I did notice that in a ten gallon tank with heavy microfaunal establishment on a flow through system with a decent misting schedule, that after about six months a large amount of it had broken down to the point where the gravel over the false bottom was begining to show through. In enclosure with lower amounts of micofauna or on lower misting schedules it may be differnet. This was set up next to a clay substrate tank for comparision..

Ed

 

Ed I plan on using the abg mix on a false bottom....

You said you could see the gravel....
Do you need to put gravel on top of the false bottom in between it and the abg?
Cause I was just going to lay down the abg mix right on top of the false bottom screen then get some moss to grow on it....

 

Ed I plan on using the abg mix on a false bottom....

You said you could see the gravel....
Do you need to put gravel on top of the false bottom in between it and the abg?
Cause I was just going to lay down the abg mix right on top of the false bottom screen then get some moss to grow on it....

I put the gravel down as I was running a comparision to a clay enclosure and I had put a layer of gravel down ontop of the screen in the clay tank. This way the conditions between the substrates was as equal as I could make them.

Ed

 

I'm not doing clay.
I'm just doing abg and moss but do I need to put gravel under the abg?

 

Whatever works for you. I've been experimenting with clay for backgrounds lately. I've recently tried to let it dry before putting a top on to see what kind of cool erosion looking cracks I can have run along the background.

Might try experimenting with clay mixes in substrate as well.

At the moment I'm using my own mixture that I've always used. Coco bedding, peat moss, charcoal, and a little sterile potting soil. This mixture has always been simple and I always have a 5 gallon bucket full in case I need it. Been mixing it up though and one of my tanks has a pre-made ABG I ordered with a big plant order for the hell of it....plus I have one tank made using dendro-bedding from black jungle. All of my tanks have a thick leaf litter layer and the micro-fauna is great in all my tanks, even as small as 10 gallon tanks. Leaf litter is just so natural and can't imagine not using it on top of the soil mixture. I've been using thin and wet oak leaves that are near breaking down for the bottom layer of litter. On top of that goes the really thick oak and magnolia leaves that come dry and baked from places like Josh's frogs.

While I am close to finishing my rack and only need to finish the bottom 3 vert conversions on tuesday when they are delivered, I guess I haven't put as much thought into what will truly hold up over the years.

I feel lucky that while my plants grow good, they don't grow too fast and out of control since I have a lot of smaller tanks on the top two shelves of rack. I guess I never base my substrate on what will grow the plants at incredible rates. That would just get annoying to trim back like crazy. My lighting is pretty bright 48" dual GE shop lights at 6500k...but I will never go beyond this with anything crazy bright as I don't think I would want to keep up with plant growth.

I like threads like this as it's a subject I'm definitely behind on.

D