Large Vivarium Construction - Page 5

midget · #41 (**permalink**) 08-02-2009, 06:14 AM

fine you've got me there lol how much do montros go for now?

fleshfrombone · #42 (**permalink**) 08-02-2009, 06:08 PM

After seeing your tank and all the work/money you put into it I wanted to cry. Then I started reading about the vivarium you wanted to set up and I perked back up. Besides the ray do you have any ideas on what kind of frog you want in there? You mentioned seeing blue jeans pumilio on your property in Costa Rica. Whatever you choose please keep detailed notes along with tons of pics. I think I speak for everyone when I say this is an incredible endeavor and all of us are very excited to see it come to fruition. I would recommend you get in touch with local froggers. If you are located in the PNW I can think of at least a dozen people who would be more than happy, myself included, to lend a hand to your project. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Energy · #43 (**permalink**) 08-02-2009, 08:59 PM

Thanks for the offer fresh from bones- I'm in Minnesota so I am not sure where pnw is?

Anyway you all are going to think I'm Crazy but

I need your opinions once again on a totally different substrate idea.

As a reefer I learned that any area with low to little flow will collect detritus. So when I see all these false bottoms(we called them plenums) I see detritus traps.

Whether it's an eggcrate bottom, lava rock or clay balls it's all the same. I have used them in the past for parts of my reef and always disliked them just because there is no REALLY GOOD way to keep them clean. Now if I wasn't going to have an extremely sensitive animal in the water column- I wouldn't care- but as such I need to maintain optimal water quality.

That is why I am having a large outside the tank sump but I still need to keep all that dead space under the soil crystal clean.

Here's the crazy idea. Following the principle that we reefers call a bare bottom tank theory. Under the land sections to keep detritus from accumulating instead of an eggcrate bottom I am debating on using solid sheets of extruded polystyrene(solid pink styrofoam) to raise the bottom up and keep water and detritus out. If the water can't enter and stagnate it can't foul the rest of the water column. Now I will just place enough polystyrene (PS -FROM NOW ON) to raise the bottom up about 1/2 the height of the water column.

On top of the PS I will place 2" river rock- for weight then 1" river rock then fabric then the coco fiber/washed sand/orchid bark mix.

Basically I am eliminating the dead space so detritus can't collect beneath the soil but also still allowing some water zone beneath the soil for plant roots.

This is an idea I would appreciate feedback on.

hpglow · #44 (**permalink**) 08-02-2009, 09:06 PM

I put a bulkhead in the bottom of my viv with a ball valve on it. Every month I change 100% of the water. This may not be possible for you with a fresh water sting ray but you could do healthy water changes on a regular basis with a bulkhead in the bottom to help prevent stagnation. You may also consider running your water through a canister filter of some kind.

Energy · #45 (**permalink**) 08-02-2009, 09:13 PM

The entire sump will act as a canister filter. I will have mechanical screens for detritus as well as the ability to easily perform water changes from this area.

I have just performed some experiments and Polystyrene is incredibly bouyant. To the point where 4 inches of PS in a 4 x 4 area reguires about 100 lbs to keep submerged.

I need another material that is inert and not boyount to place on the bottom of the tank to raise the bottom up to displace water.

midget · #46 (**permalink**) 08-02-2009, 09:35 PM

keep the egg crate. i'm asuming your tank was drilled and has overflows. since you won't be able to use them then why don't you install a bulkhead under the flase and use that as the drain probly need a couple 2" drains, and if you can't do that you could put a pump under it and have a water fall or two if you plan on using the return pump as a water fall too, this would greatly increase O2 in the water. good luck. also the hole point of false bottom is for proper drainage the faom would not allow this. good luck

Jason · #47 (**permalink**) 08-02-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energy

Thanks for the offer fresh from bones- I'm in Minnesota so I am not sure where pnw is?

Another Minnesotan! We will talk more as I am about to head out the door, but I got a lot of local places for you to get supplies.

melas · #48 (**permalink**) 08-02-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energy

The entire sump will act as a canister filter. I will have mechanical screens for detritus as well as the ability to easily perform water changes from this area.

If you have a large sump why not just isolate the pond from the false bottom? Have a seperate drain(s) for both the land and pond areas. You can just reuse the effluent from the land area to water the plants etc. By doing this you will greatly reduce the leaching of contaminates into the ray's habitat. This would also give you greater control and there would be no worries with "dead spots" etc. While it will reduce the volume of water, it will greatly increase overall water quality.

Some thoughts.

Energy · #49 (**permalink**) 08-02-2009, 11:36 PM

I am against drilling the bottom of a tank. If it ever reverts back to an aquarium and there is a leak- Murphy's rule says it will be at the bulkhead in the bottom.

So I have kept all my bulkheads toward the top and don't need to drain the entire thing to fix a small leak.

To raise the bottom of the land area and disperse water I may just take some plastic "under the bed" storage bins with lids and fill them with rock so they won't float and seal them.

I do plan on having a water feature of some sort. At this point I haven't decided if it will a stream or river at the front of the acrylic 8 " deep for the entire 15 feet wrapping around or just a waterfall. If I do a stream I was playing with the idea of making part of it a cave at the glass. So frogs could hop to the acrylic and fish could swim underneath and both would be viewable. I may be getting a little to industrious for my own good with that idea.

I am not fond of seeing 8-10 inches of soil stacked on the acrylic to compensate for the depth of the water. It's wasted viewing space so I may lean toward wrapping the river around the entire front of the tank and have it dump into the lake at the end.

melas · #50 (**permalink**) 08-03-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energy

I am against drilling the bottom of a tank. If it ever reverts back to an aquarium and there is a leak- Murphy's rule says it will be at the bulkhead in the bottom.

So I have kept all my bulkheads toward the top and don't need to drain the entire thing to fix a small leak.

Oh - as a former reefer I totally understand what you are saying - I guess I just assumed your drains were already in the bottom with having a shallow pool for the ray. Perhaps I missed it above - how are you getting the water from the shallow pool into the sump?

Here's a potential option for doing what I suggested above without drilling.

Take a 5 gallon bucket and cut off the bottom so that the bucket will extend from the bare bottom of the tank through the false bottom to a few inches above the eventual substrate height. Drill a bunch of holes or cut "legs" out of the bucket. Drop a pump in the bucket so that you can pump the water out when the false bottom gets full. You could build a faux rock to cover the bucket and keep critters from falling in. Some thoughts.

PS - having the stream in the front of the tank sounds wicked! Do it!