Bad Press

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Philsuma

I hope there are many people not affiliated with ASN, doing excellent work to better the hobby and promote conservation....there just has to be....

You can't use membership in any organization as a yardstick.

Actually in this case we can... if you aren't a member of ASN with registered animals then you don't have access to the population tracking software that lets you pull all of the relevant data out on how related that animal is to other animals (if genetics are known, but going forward it can be tracked), age of the animal, total offspring produced, total surviving offspring (assuming that they are also registered), average age of that species... etc..
Its a little hard to help preserve a species long-term if you can't ensure that the maximal amount of genes are represented in the population. If you don't manage the genetics then you are in effect dooming the population as genetics are lost with each boom and bust cycle....

Originally Posted by Philsuma

Did Martin's Aquarium make more money from the sale of small animals...or did they make more from the additional equiptment sales and then the follow-up sales when mom and dad came back one or even two times to get more animals to replace the dead ones?

When it came to herps, they had an oddly progressive view point of that they would rather sell the tank etc cheap (for example, AGA ten gallons were sold for $3.99 (and they purchased them by the tractor trailor load) because if you had the animal they could then sell you the food for the rest of the life of the animal ensuring a steady customer..and because people tended to only buy a tank once while a tank could be used for fish or herps or smalll animals in succession (not small animals and then water holding but the other way was fine..) I sold approximately 45,000 large crickets and 50,000 small and pinhead crickets a week to customers at 12 crickets for 0.99 cents, 2 dozen for $1.95).

Originally Posted by Philsuma

I think the mortality rate for "other frogs" has got to be highter than dart frogs....just my guess of course.

Within the dendrobatid hobby subgroup or the pet industry as a whole? Do you think that the wc dendrobatids being advertised on other websites or being sold in pet stores have a longer lifespan than the fire-belly toads or dwarf aquatic frogs?

Ed

[Philsuma]

Originally Posted by otis07

But what else are you going to use as a yardstick? We have to have some way of gauging conservation attempts.

There are many Americans against gun control laws that do not belong to the NRA. A nice long list of membership is nice but it's not the end-all gauge.

Originally Posted by otis07

a species like B. orientalis are a lot hardier than darts, and would be a lot more likely to survive in sub-prime conditions so it would also make sense that they would live longer.

I think you are right, that they are a hardier animal, overall, but the overriding fact remains....they are the token frog commonly available for a very cheap price. Even the cheaper Auratus species are 5 times as expensive. The cheap "entry level", easily obtainable frog suffers from impulse buying and improper care at a much higher rate than dart frogs.

When we speak about importation, smuggling, conservation, habitat destruction ,we must be sure we don't paint with such a wide brush.
Reptile - Snakes, Lizards, Chelonians, Caudates..ect...are all very different hobbies. I'm hopefull that the dart frog hobby is different, yet again....from the frog hobby. That's how I see it.

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Philsuma

Reptile - Snakes, Lizards, Chelonians, Caudates..ect...are all very different hobbies. I'm hopefull that the dart frog hobby is different, yet again....from the frog hobby. That's how I see it.

Why?
I know I've asked several times as to why you see it as different..

Ed

[Philsuma]

Originally Posted by Ed

Why?
I know I've asked several times as to why you see it as different..

I find the people that I have met so far, in this particular hobby sub group to be more intelligent, courteous, right thinking and conservation oriented than other hobby groups that I have either belonged to or been exposed.

The people here are "better"....there, I said it.

[Philsuma]

as my membership in the Global Gecko Association goes up in flames....

[JoshK]

Originally Posted by Philsuma

I find the people that I have met so far, in this particular hobby sub group to be more intelligent, courteous, right thinking and conservation oriented than other hobby groups that I have either belonged to or been exposed.

The people here are "better"....there, I said it.

Its about time someone did.