hybrids

[siples]

We all know how the community feels about hybrids in dart frogs but do any fish keepers have any thoughts on tropical fish. I am an avid synodontis collecter. I had just been on aquabid and somebody had an angelicus/occeffiler cross for sale. Synodontis can carry a fairly high price, and as I was scoping out some other categories I noticed hybrids in cichlids and also plecostemus. Just wondered if anybody had any thoughts. Thanks,
Kieth

[KeroKero]

I don't like hybrid fish for the same reason I don't like hybrid PDFs... so few of the actual species fish are bred, and with the hybrids... you have to start worrying about the purity of your "species" stock if you're not careful. If there was a fishy studbook, it wouldn't be an issue... but a registery or something where you could get pure stock when you wanted it, I worry about hybrids. I've heard the stories from the Orchid hobby where they hybridized so much they actually lost much of the pure stock... and what if you can't get it back?

[phrakt]

What Corey said! In the orchid world, one of the best examples would be Odontoglossum crispum, which was a parent for most Odontoglossum hybrids. Today, finding an actual pure O. crispum is quite a challenge.

I stay away from hybrids altogether, be they frogs, fish, orchids, bromeliads, etc.

[KeroKero]

And how many of the "species" orchids floating around aren't just back crosses? I know there are some gesneriads with that issue... supposed to be a "pure" species, then when selfed, their selflings show a range of traits beyond what is known in the species (and oddly like hybrids...). Not fun to find out that way :evil:

[tkromer]

Hybrid cichlids are highly frowned upon, that's what I raise and I have heard the wrath even for keeping species together that could cross, even though I'm an experienced breeder and pulled them before they were of breeding age. In general hybrids are bad across the board, but for the most part people don't frown upon linebreeding for traits (color, pattern etc).

[KeroKero]

It amuses me how in some circles hybrid designers could be so frowned upon, while line bred designers are ok... :roll: I don't say mixing PDFs is bad because hybrids could result, it's mostly because they are like african cichlids... even different populations of the same species can be different in personality and size that one beats the snot out of the other, or at least intimidates... but line breeding and hybridizing are two routes to the same goal. I don't get it...

[tkromer]

Linebreeding isn't quite as bad in my opinion, because in reality you are keeping the stock pure. However, I just don't like the idea and would prefer to let nature take its course. Cichlids sure do have a habit of beating on one another, but they are intelligent little fish and much more fun to watch than your typical "mixed tropicals" type tank.

[KeroKero]

I guess it depends on how you think of line breeding... yes the stock is pure, but you're cutting out the majority of the variability in the animal so it's no longer the way nature made it, and a designer animal. I dunno, line breeding has it's pros and cons... done well, you can still have a genetically healthy animal, but just not very variable in phenotype. Or you could have a horridly inbred animal with health issues. But... with a line bred animal you can breed them back to the type animal and they would show more of the variability again, in a way partially undoing the line breeding. You can never undo a hybrid!

Cichlids and PDFs have similar things that make them interesting... they have more complex social interactions because of their aggression, which makes them a bit more complicated and harder to set up successfully with no issues, but more entertaining to wait long term because they interact with each other rather than just be pretty little flits of color in the tank.