Who knows about leopard geckos...need help

[trinacliff]

I think something is wrong with one of my kids' leopard geckos...it's color is off, I don't think it's about to shed, and it seems a little more lethargic than the other. It is still eating fine, but it's tail is not as fat as the other one's tail. We've had them about a month or so, and we got them as youngsters, but I don't know exactly how old (it was like pulling teeth to get good info from the vendor.)

Anyway, I just took some pic's, but I'd rather not load them all onto D'board...so e-mail me if you think you can help and I'll send you a few. KrisTodd@aol.com

Thanks!!!

Kristen

[elmoisfive]

Kristen,

We obtained two leopard geckos as youngsters and had them housed together and initially all was well. After a few months though, one of them became very passive, bad color and almost listless similar to what you describe and rarely came out of hiding to eat while the other lizard was a pig. I decided to separate them wondering if some kind of domination was going on and I'm pleased to say that both lizards are fat and happy for over 2 years now.

You may just want to separate the one you are concerned about from it's cagemate and see if it improves.

Good luck.

Bill

[zBrinks]

Kristen,

I have raised several dozen leopards from my 1.2 breeders during the last few years. Seperate the leopards! With two animals, one always becomes dominant and seems to hog most of the food. Even if it is not being outwardly aggressive, just the presence of the dominant animal can be enough to impact the behavior of the subordinate one. Keep them seperate until they are 6-8 inches long with nice fat tails, they yu can try and reintroduce them, as long as you do not have 2 males (check for preanal pores, a row of small dark dots above their cloaca, only the males got em!).

[trinacliff]

Thanks Bill and Zach...while I wish it was something as simple as that, I am fearing that the one is impacted. I've had them on sand, and yes, I read that it can be a bad thing, but all the while, I read that other people say it's fine so long as you supplement with calcium enough...I understood it to be one of those controversies. Obviously, the latter recommendation is bunk...

A few things...first, the one that's tail is not very fat, seems an off color and is a bit just not right activity-wise is the larger of the two. It's belly is not on the skinny side, yet it's tail is...so I am thinking it has some sand blocked in there. I plan on taking it to our herp vet tomorrow...although, I understand usually not much can be done. Those dadgum companies that market this sand as "digestable" and able to be used with geckos should be...well, you know. Sued for false advertising...

At any rate, I soaked the gecko tonight in a warm pedialyte/water bath for about 15 minutes...I refreshed it with warm water about half way through. Let's hope it is something that can be passed...if not, I'm afraid for the little fellow and sad for my son.

Thanks again for the input...oh, and by the way, they are separated anyway, just in case I'm wrong. I want to see if it poops tonight.

Kristen

[defaced]

It is still eating fine, but it's tail is not as fat as the other one's tail.

I'm rusty on my leo care info, but I'm pretty sure if the animal is impacted, it won't eat. How large are your leos (snout to vent)? That was usually one of the big issues with keeping them on sand - how large they are.

Edit: spelling

[Ed]

Typically leopards will consume sand if there is insufficient calcium in the diet as this is one of the methods they aquire calcium in the wild so its not totally bunk but it is a significant risk. If the gecko is impacted you should be able to gently palpate the abdomen and feel the impactions if its is severe and you are correct they do tend to go off feed when impacted. Seperating them and watching for a fecal(s) will help tell you if it is impacted or you can get a vet to x-ray it.

The first thing I would suggest is checking the sex of the animals and see if you have a pair or two males. The two males could he having territorial issues. If you have a pair, and the thin one is a female then she may be pulling the reserves out of the tail for egg deposition (mine are laying eggs at this time). If it is due to ovulation and/or egg deposition then if you want to keep her plumpier tthen you need to offer higher calorie meals (I use frozen/thawed pinks off of tweezers during the breeding season).

Some comments.

Ed

[trinacliff]

Originally Posted by Ed

Typically leopards will consume sand if there is insufficient calcium in the diet as this is one of the methods they aquire calcium in the wild so its not totally bunk but it is a significant risk.

The first thing I would suggest is checking the sex of the animals and see if you have a pair or two males. The two males could he having territorial issues. If you have a pair, and the thin one is a female then she may be pulling the reserves out of the tail for egg deposition (mine are laying eggs at this time).

Ed

I'm saying that the sand being fine for geckos to be on is bunk...I called the herp vet this morning, and she acted like it happens all the time. I supplement with the same vit's and calcium that I use for my darts.

These are both very young geckos, so I don't think it's an egg/reproduction related issue.

I found just a urate this morning, so it looks like it is definitely impacted. I'm soaking twice a day in luke warm water mixed with pedialyte...the vet office also said they can get me Laxatone (I think it's used for cat hairballs) to give orally to see if this will help break it up so it can pass.

Keep fingers crossed...thanks!

Kristen

[elmoisfive]

Sand or any other substrate for that matter that can be ingested and not safely passed are issues for herp keepers in general. I always cringe when I see sand being suggested for use as a substrate because of the issues it can cause.

Bill

[Ed]

snip "I'm saying that the sand being fine for geckos to be on is bunk...I called the herp vet this morning, and she acted like it happens all the time. I supplement with the same vit's and calcium that I use for my darts. "endsnip

This doesn't mean that the amount of calcium in the diet is sufficient to prevent consumption of the substrate. Your vet is correct this is a common problem with leopard geckos and is due to the leopards attempting to ingest more calcium. This is why it is often recommended that a dish of calcium carbonate powder also be included in the enclosure for the geckos to lick instead of ingesting the substrate.

snip "Sand or any other substrate for that matter that can be ingested and not safely passed are issues for herp keepers in general. I always cringe when I see sand being suggested for use as a substrate because of the issues it can cause"endsnip

Any substrate with the exception of a bare bottom or something that is too large to be ingested (such as slabs of slate) is at risk for impaction (even those that are "made" for ingestion) but keeping the animals on this sort of substrate is typically unacceptable in the long run for multiple reasons. If a sufficient quantity of most anything that acts as fiber in the diet can cause impactions if ingested in sufficient quantity. In addition, I have seen leopard geckos kept on news paper tear off and swallow strips of paper when hunting live crickets.


I have been keeping and breeding (when I have had requests for them) leopard geckos for a long time now (over 12 years)(not including when I dealt with them through work)...

Ed

[trinacliff]

Ed, do you keep yours on sand?

Kristen