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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2012, 05:59 AM
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Default Re: Bearded Dragon colon falling out?

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Originally Posted by danny8524ever View Post
Yeah usually. Sometimes I'd be missing squash or spinach.
I'm not worried about the squash or carrots (although sweet potatos and yams are good substitutes with a better shelf life. Chop them and microwave then slightly until soft, allow to cool and add to the salad...)

I'm more concerned about using those two greens as the primary source of leafy vegetables for the animals. While they are good sources of various nutrients, using them as a consistent or sole source of greens is a potential problem.
Spinach and kale are both relatively high in oxalic acid which can inhibit or reduce calcium, and iron uptake during digestion. In addition to the oxalic acid issues, kale and other members of the cruciferous group of vegetables are potential sources of chemicals that can interfere with the function of the thyroid (goitrogenic). and can cause issues with the liver and kidney when included in excess (which can be as little as 2.5% of the diet (for a quick example see the impact of this cousin of kale ScienceDirect.com - Food and Chemical Toxicology - Effects of high levels of Brussels sprouts in the diet of rats ). If you need a staple green for your bearded diet, I would suggest using romaine as the staple and then adding in which ever greens are in season and relatively inexpensive. A rotation of the greens is the best way to avoid conditional nutrition issues with salad preperation....

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2012, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: Bearded Dragon colon falling out?

Good Info Ed. I tend to feed my bearded a mix of mostly fresh collard/mustard greens with the occasional mix of cilantro, strawberries, peas, ect. I would like to try Dandelion Greens and also squash with future feedings...

I found this guide and it is full of good nutritional information on food items for bearded dragons: Nutrition Content
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Bearded Dragon colon falling out?

Some of the information on that site is okay to use provided you really understand what is going on in the diet.. For example the author doesn't point out that vitamin A in the form of carotenoids doesn't compete for uptake with D3 and E.. so the recommendation on the supplements is somewhat incorrect (a mistake I was guilty of originally)... This also skews the perception of which foods are best for the lizard.

A second questionable point is the reference to oral D3 possibly not being well utilized in the diet, I was unable to find a reference that supports that position. Instead (as with other herp taxa) what is in the recent literature is showing is that allowing behavioral regulation through basking enables the lizard to achieve a higher circulating level of D3 metabolites than is possible with oral D3 (one of the differences is that D3 in it's various metabolic stages also can have hormonal like actions). See for example (sorry not free access, ScienceDirect.com - Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology Part B: Biochemistry and Molecular Biology - Effects of vitamin D3 supplementation and UVb exposure on the growth and plasma concentration of vitamin D3 metabolites in juvenile bearded drago and


(free access) Serum Vitamin D Levels and Skeletal and General Development of Young Bearded Dragon Lizards (Pogona vitticeps), underDifferent Conditions of UV-B Radiation Exposure (although the authors in the second paper don't appear to account for the thermal isomerization in the formation of D3 as part of the study..)

With respect to the greens, if you have access to dandelions that aren't sprayed, you can also offer the flowers in the spring as part of the diet. Also many vegetarian and omniverous herps willl take forsythia flowers which can be forced throughout the winter.

Collard greens are also part of the cruciferous group and should be considered to not be ideal as the sole source of greens in the diet.

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Bearded Dragon colon falling out?

My dragon will eat small cubes of the cricket food put out by repashy (Bugs Burger I believe), which gives a whole new meaning to gut loading .
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: Bearded Dragon colon falling out?

Thanks for the info guys. I was not aware of the need for rotation of veggies. I was just told to make the mix that I've been making and that the mix should cover the nutritional needs. Good to know that now. Thanks.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:51 PM
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I just joined this forum because I finally found someone who is knowledgeable and credible and who backs things up with actual studies or medical information. I am so tired of all the myths and "pseudo experts" giving out wrong information, and imho ED is a breath of fresh air. I am not sure why people would feel offended when he posts factual information that conflicts with popular erroneous info - seems like it's the phony experts people should be getting angry at.

I do hope people keep asking questions or even stating what they think they know, so that Ed can confirm or disbunk the info. Reading the posts and then reading Ed's responses have been so helpful and educational for me! The correct info would never have been posted were it not for the comments. I hope that Ed will correct me anytime I post wrong info, as my goal is to take care of my dragon in the best way I can - that became my obligation when I offered to take her (begged is more like it) when I heard someone on the train saying he was dropping his dragon at the SPCA a little over a year ago.

When I first got her, I studied everything I could find to try to figure out what was best for him/her (the owner told me it was a male; the vet told me it is a female). I printed out list after list of good/bad/poisonous foods, then went through the several dozen lists and found some said foods were good that other lists said were very bad. So I took the list that seemed most accurate, and noted where other lists said something different. I only feed my dragon foods that are not listed as bad on any of the lists. I found this site because I can't get fresh dandelion greens outside for the duration of the winter, and wondered if she could eat forsythia before clipping forsythia branches and bringing them inside to bloom. (I had the dickens of a time keeping her from running toward the Christmas tree and climbing it, because apparently evergreens are not good for dragons - otherwise I would have let her climb to her heart's content!) Anyway, I was so happy to find Ed and his expertise, AND that I can force bloom my forsythia without worrying about the dragon getting hold of some (I hope the leaves are also ok for her to feed on!).

TY Ed, and everyone, for this excellent forum and resource!!
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Old 01-12-2017, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: Bearded Dragon colon falling out?

If you struggle to find organic dandelion greens in the winter, keep in mind how easy it is to grow dandelions. Growing your own indoors would also allow you to optimize their nutritional value with the right soil and lighting with some research.
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Old 01-13-2017, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Bearded Dragon colon falling out?

This might also be of interest to some

The diet of free-roaming Australian Central Bearded Dragons (Pogona vitticeps).

Quote:
Abstract
The central bearded dragon (Pogona vitticeps) is one of the most popular pet lizards. However, little is known regarding their nutrient requirement, or their natural diet. Therefore, the stomach contents of 14 free-roaming P. vitticeps were determined by flushing. These stomach contents were described taxonomically, and analyzed for crude protein content as well as fatty acid content and composition. Most of the dry matter intake was in the form of animal material (61%) stemming from nine arthropod orders. The most abundant were alates of the termite Drepanotermes sp., accounting for 95% of the total number of prey items and more than half of the total dry matter (DM) intake. Plant material contributed 16% of the total DM intake. The diets were high in crude protein (41-50% DM) and the total fatty acid content was 14-27% of the DM intake. The main fatty acid was C18:1n9c (51-56% of total fatty acids), and polyunsaturated fatty acids (n3 and n6) comprised 6-8% of the total fat intake. Our data suggest that P. vitticeps is an opportunistic predator, which exploits the seasonal availability of prey. Based on our data and other studies, a diet consisting of several insect species, supplemented with leafy vegetables, rich in n3 FA's, would best resemble the expected natural diet of P. vitticeps.
Unfortunately I haven't found a free copy.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: Bearded Dragon colon falling out?

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Originally Posted by boabab95 View Post
Unfortunately I haven't found a free copy.
If it is published in ZooBiology then you'll rarely find a free access copy. Those are the ones I've had to pay for most frequently (and I'll probably have to do so to get a copy of that one....).

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Old 01-13-2017, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: Bearded Dragon colon falling out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed View Post
If it is published in ZooBiology then you'll rarely find a free access copy. Those are the ones I've had to pay for most frequently (and I'll probably have to do so to get a copy of that one....).

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Looks like I'm stuck with the abstract for a while then!
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