So, you want a reason to not mix species?

[SmackoftheGods]

So tonight I was in the living room watching television and I hear a bunch of noise coming from my bedroom (aka: frog room). Figured I'd go check out what's going on. Turns out I now have two verified male leucomelas. They decided to have a shouting match during my Family Guy time. Fortunately they were too concerned with each other to care when I walked in, opened the cage and started taking pictures.

The way I see it, if _the_ beginner frog (let's admit it, anytime someone asks for the best beginner frog at least half the people say "leucs!") that is fairly non-territorial, relatively easy to take care of and keep alive can express aggression toward its fellow brothern, what do you think could happen when introducing more than one species to a small enclosure?

As a side note, the tank has plenty of hiding places (I count eight film canisters mounted in the Great Stuff, my leucs utilize them all, not to mention mini caves and plenty of visual barriers), is well planted, and has plenty of horizontal and vertical space.

Looks like I'm going to be getting a bigger tank

[Dane]

Wrestling isn't that uncommon. I sometimes see it among pairs that have been together for years, but something (usually food) just sets them off for a few minutes.

[Shockfrog]

In my experience female leucs will even drown eachother. These are certainly not non-territorial frogs!

[Jellyman]

That is a very irresponsible post. This information is not based on any facts or experience and is only being posted to further stir the pot on the topic of mixing species. It is post like this that hurt this hobby. Posting inaccurate data based on your belief instead of actual experience with the subject.

You may be of the opinion that mixed tanks are difficult but that is simply not the case(this is based on almost 10 years keeping mixed tanks and assisting others with the setup and maintanence of their mixed tanks). What you have shown is that aggression can happen in a single species tank and happens more then one would think because almost every tank is setup with unsexed juveniles. The wrestling behavior you witnessed is a normal(as stated by the previos two posters) function of how frogs interact to establish a hierachy within a group. It is when this aggression becomes excessive that it needs to be addressed.

Also, it is not recommended to setup a mixed species tank or keep a group of leuc's in a small enclosure, as you stated.

[flyangler18]

That is the most irresponsible post I have read to date on this forum. You may be of the opinion that mixed tanks are difficult but that is simply not the case.

Wow, Jell, the most irresponsible post? A little hyperbole, don't you think?

It's a well recognized fact that you keep a multi-species tank, and I pass no judgment on you because it's clear that you are observant and quick to make adjustments if territorial disputes and aggression become problematic to the health of the frogs.

However, proselytizing about the merits of mixing is another thing entirely. I consider mixing to be an advanced subject that shouldn't be approached by inexperienced novice keepers because there are many variables that could contribute to potentially devastating failure.

Your experiences should be shared so that others can read about them, research on their own and come to their own decisions and conclusions.

Respectfully,
Jason

[Jellyman]

Originally Posted by flyangler18

Wow, Jell, the most irresponsible post? A little hyperbole, don't you think?

It's a well recognized fact that you keep a multi-species tank, and I pass no judgment on you because it's clear that you are observant and quick to make adjustments if territorial disputes and aggression become problematic to the health of the frogs.

However, proselytizing about the merits of mixing is another thing entirely. I consider mixing to be an advanced subject that shouldn't be approached by inexperienced novice keepers because there are many variables that could contribute to potentially devastating failure.

Your experiences should be shared so that others can read about them, research on their own and come to their own decisions and conclusions.

Respectfully,
Jason

I agree 100% that it is not something that should be tackled by a beginner and one should aquire knowledge and experience before attempting to do so. But it is irresponsible for members to continue to try and misinform other members with inaccurate information based on their own beliefs and NO experience. That is irresponsible and a detriment to the advancement of this hobby.

Also, I am not proselytizing. I am not trying to change anyone's mind. That is a decision each and everyone should have the opportunity to do so on their terms based on the full set of accurate and avaialable information.

[laylow]

I believe that Smack is a great guy and has done a lot to progress the hobby of darts in Utah and surrounding area. If we are learning we should all do it together instead of acting like another person's ideas or opinions are worth no merits or second thoughts. Bottom line lets help eachother not be so quick to pass judgement. . .

[flyangler18]

But it is irresponsible for members to continue to try and misinform other members with inaccurate information based on their own beliefs and NO experience. That is irresponsible and a detriment to the advancement of this hobby.

I fail to see any 'irresponsibility' in the case of the OP; it is a logical progression that any territorial disputes observed in a single species enclosure could well be magnified in a mixed species enclosure, particularly those with similar body shape (that Ed has referenced previously).

If I've misinterpreted the intent of the OP, please correct me.

[Jellyman]

Originally Posted by flyangler18

I fail to see any 'irresponsibility' in the case of the OP; it is a logical progression that any territorial disputes observed in a single species enclosure could well be magnified in a mixed species enclosure, particularly those with similar body shape (that Ed has referenced previously).

If I've misinterpreted the intent of the OP, please correct me.

The OP is making assumptions that just because it happened with his leuc's it will be magnified in a mixed species tank. This is "simlpy" not true. The OP also stated "what do you think could happen when introducing more than one species to a small enclosure?" For starters you should not put a group of leucs in a small enclosure no more then you should put a small group of mixed frogs in a small enclosure. I would bet if you put a small group of Dendroboard members in an elevator that would not go over well either It is irresponsible to offer advice based on speculation with no experience to back up your claims.

[Woodsman]

Whether or not there is aggression in mixed species tanks is a competely seperate issue from intra-species aggression. It's sort of like saying, "all of the astronauts that have visited the moon have been white American men, so women and non-white, non-American persons would be unable to survive on the moon". Your observed behaviour does not logically transfer to your suggestion that mixed species tanks would only increase aggression.