So, you want a reason to not mix species?

[Jellyman]

Originally Posted by Philsuma

Please do not work a zoo display in the current argument for hobbyist mixed species...

We are primarily dealing with young hobbyists - not institution staff with biology degrees and other training and a budget (no jokes here).

I agree that a zoo display should not be used as an example of what takes place in the home hobbiest display for the reasons listed above. But, the information that these people have can be shared to help us make better decisions while setting up home displays and in the long run we could see setups in the home that rival or surpass those in zoos.

[Philsuma]

Originally Posted by Jellyman

This goes against what has been the unwritten rule and you fear as the rest of the mixing community that you will be cast out of the "click". It is sad that this influence of this forum is suppressing your 35 years of experience.

Jel....I say this with the most sincere reasons...

Please get some help with various issues.

If you think Ed is afraid to post his opinions or his "mind"....then you are in serious denial or have not bothered to read or comprehend Ed's body of work on this forum.

I really think you are in denial about a lot of issues here and in need of some help with that.

Again, I say that with the best of intentions and wishes.

[MonarchzMan]

We need to be careful about letting this get personal...

Yes, Ed has posted a great deal of very informative posts, and with his tendency to post extensive posts, I don't think that it was unreasonable to ask to use the search function. Zach didn't take long in finding the relevant posts, there's no reason someone else couldn't do that too.

[Dragonfly]

I have no desire for a mixed tank - I do want a frog room..... Enough is enough. Until I saw the tank, I had other questions. Seems like the tank is evidence enough. No harm meant. Simple overcrowding and some "jelly masses which may have been eggs"....

I had expected to see a vastly larger tank, with multiple feeding areas perhaps....

I think there has been some excellent scholarly and scientific information made available thanks to a couple of posters, Ed being one.

And there are 2 ways of learning I will talk about about .... one from those who have gone before (learning from history) and learning from experience - which if there is no history is one thing otherwise those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Another saying is that insanity is repeating the same actions expecting different results.

I am sure that we can all learn from one another. And I hope that there has been learning from this thread for all who read and do not post.

[chuckpowell]

I'm afraid you have no idea what was going on 20 years ago. Do you really think you're doing so many things different. Your not. Most tanks I see today are just like the ones we made years ago. There were fancy tanks with running water, lots of plants, all those years ago. The trend I see today is towards smaller tanks with more frogs. My opinion, no offense, we were doing it a bit better back then than many people are today.

And all the new frogs that are coming in - most were available back in the day, but under a different name.

Best,

Chuck

Originally Posted by Jellyman

-no offense but 20 years ago you were basically doing this by trial and error, you probably have alot of situations that ended poorly by no true fault of yours, simply the lack of knowledge avaialble about the frogs

[-Jex-]

Jake I think you were just going for the record on longest thread with this one lol! I can't believe this is still going.

[Ed]

Originally Posted by frogfreak

Hi Ed

Where can this information be found? We've been looking for quite some time now regarding the natuaral cycle of breeding. We started a thread as well but didn't really get any facts. We want to keep our frogs as healthy as possible and having them breed constanly will stress the frogs. Is there a thread, book or other any other info out there? Can you point us in the right direction? We want to try and replicate their natural habitat as closely as we can.

Thanks

For example for light intensity in Costa Rica

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Costa Rican rainfall and weather map Costa Rica Rainfall and weather map (note that there is often a smaller dry/wet period followed by a longer wet/dry period so there are in effect two of each during the course of the year.

Some more can be found here.. ORNL DAAC Data Set Documentation

or even here (included humidity..) (note in that case the average humidity averages around 80-83%...)

Google and Google scholar are amazing tools if one doesn't mind refining thier search strings.
Try using daily rainfall total and then the name of the country.

Ed

[Ed]

Originally Posted by MonarchzMan

Apologies, I meant dendrobatid species.

Got it, just making sure for the sake of clarity.

Ed

[Ed]

Originally Posted by Jellyman

In the amount of time you took away from your wife and other interest to write this post you could have cut and pasted the information as ZBrinks kindly did for us. You choose not to becasue you know that the fact of the matter is that you can help us create successful mixed enclosures that will thrive. This goes against what has been the unwritten rule and you fear as the rest of the mixing community that you will be cast out of the "click". It is sad that this influence of this forum is suppressing your 35 years of experience. It is easy for them to stand on your shoulders and shout down at everyone trying to find answers on a topic that has not been properly studied or explored. It is comendable for those actually trying something new in hopes of learning and advancing what is a wonderful "hobby" even when being faced with such negativity and rude comments and attitudes.

Okay, I'm going to say a couple of things and I hope you take it personally. You have no clue as to what I am able to do and am not able to do. I do take offense as your assumption that my typing and the ability to search for something and cut and paste each individual item is the same. I can type a whole lot faster.

I also take offense at your assumption and demand for the entitlement of spoon feeding you information that you are for some reason unable or too lazy to locate on your own despite a clear roadmap. I also take offense at your attitude that pandering to your demand when it is available on the forums is an important use of my time.

If you think I am afraid to share an opinion or information regardless of the "clique" (if your going to use a word at least try to use the right one and not a sound alike... ) then you are spouting at best out of ignorance and at worst due to a failure to comprehend. You couldn't have wanted the information contained in those posts since you were so unwilling to even try and locate it despite being given a direct roadmap...

Those posts were the first posts I ever made on this board and if you really wanted the information contained in there you would have pulled up the thread and read it and seen the whole argument.

Based on the post cited above, you do not intend to make any efforts (even such a minor one as using the search function) to "earn" knowledge and in my opinion will not appreciate any such help in having the knowldedge provided to you...

How about finishing defining the terms we started to discuss earlier in this thread?

Why do you think the ESA covers Atelopus zeteki? Can you provide any citation to support you allegation that simply because A. zeteki are in captivity in the US zoos that the way they are being maintained is a violation of the ESA?

Some serious comments,

Ed

[frogfreak]

Thanks for all the info Ed! Laura send a kiss