Proper Due Diligence for online frog purchases.

[salix]

Originally Posted by EricM

My first question is why aren't you buying those frogs then.

Sorry, not to go too far off topic, but your comment brought back a memory from one of my early jobs. I was 20 and working in a tropical fish store. The store was owned by two guys in their 30's. They said they had been sick of having to put up with cr*p from customers all their lives and told us we didn't have to with a difficult person.

(Just to show you how long ago this was), I was catching some zebra danios for a guy, we were selling them 10/$1.00. The customer commented "The store down the street is selling them for 15/$1.00". I paused with the net in my hand, turned to him and said, "Then you'd be pretty stupid to buy them here!" He didn't say another word about trying to bargain, so I finished bagging his purchases.

I admit, I have asked for multi-frog discounts from vendors, but I wouldn't think of asking them to match someone else's prices. Generally, you get what you pay for in quality and reputation of the seller.

Deb

[jubjub47]

Originally Posted by salix

Sorry, not to go too far off topic, but your comment brought back a memory from one of my early jobs. I was 20 and working in a tropical fish store. The store was owned by two guys in their 30's. They said they had been sick of having to put up with cr*p from customers all their lives and told us we didn't have to with a difficult person.

(Just to show you how long ago this was), I was catching some zebra danios for a guy, we were selling them 10/$1.00. The customer commented "The store down the street is selling them for 15/$1.00". I paused with the net in my hand, turned to him and said, "Then you'd be pretty stupid to buy them here!" He didn't say another word about trying to bargain, so I finished bagging his purchases.

I admit, I have asked for multi-frog discounts from vendors, but I wouldn't think of asking them to match someone else's prices. Generally, you get what you pay for in quality and reputation of the seller.

Deb

I don't think that it is out of place to inquire about getting a multi-frog discount. It's really a harmless question and many times sellers are more than willing to give such discounts.

Eric, it's good to hear that you have that attitude towards the referencing issue. When I posted my question on that I had a feeling that most would be completely fine with it. In my opinion if your going to take offense to me researching your selling history a bit then I don't want to deal with you.

[Dancing frogs]

Originally Posted by sports_doc

4. Communication is key. Both before, and after receipt of the animals.



Shawn

Yes, and to specify: timely coummunication is key.
For instance, if you respond to an ad with an inquiry like:
What would be my total price for 5 frogs shipped to my zip code?
And the vendor responds in a timely manner (say within a day) it is only fair to respond with a yay or nay as soon as you can...in other words, don't wait several days, and expect the frogs to be still available.

That being said, don't get you're undies bunched up if you send an inquiry on a weekend, and don't get a response till monday...some people have lives.

Vendors: send tracking #s as soon as you have them available.
Buyers: it is a very nice thing to let the vendor know the frogs arrived OK (or not) as soon as you can find a minute to do so.

Don't post an ad if you are planning on going on vacation, etc.

If the frogs are to be shipped, understand that you must be available to receive (ideally pick it up at a "hold at" location) and sign for the package when it is to be delivered. Figure out a day when you could do this, and ask the vendor if shipping that day would be possible. (always nice to have a little idea of what you're week will be like)

Picking you're package up at a "hold at" location eliminates a truck ride, so instead of riding in the back of a boiling hot or ice cold truck, you're package sits in a nice, room temperature environment. It is also cheaper than residential delivery.

Fridays are not a good day to expect you're package...if for some reason the package is delayed, it may be monday before you see it...not good.

A word on pricing:

I usually offer competitive pricing, I don't mind if you ask for a little break on a large purchase, but please, no low-ball offers. I once had someone offer me x amount of dollars for every frog in my ad...the amount they offered was only about 10% of what the frogs were worth...I took it as an insult.

[frogfarm]

And realize, in times like these, if you only want 1 $50 frog and that person has to travel an hour and a half to drop them off and gas prices as hi as they are, you may have to go to Black Jungle or Josh`s Frogs to get someone to do that. If you spend an hour on emails and an hour on the phone for 1 frog and then 1 1/2 driving and gas etc. it isn`t really worth it for an individual to sell you a frog. If they have no other reason to drive(other orders or chores) it isn`t feasable to make that sale. We are not all walmart w/ a bunch of minimum wage employees to field such questions and spend that time on 1 frog purchases.
This is why I`m doing mostly wholesale. Spending 20-30 hours on the phone and emails to get no sales that week isn`t possible from a business model. Especially when you`ve spent enough time to at least get 1 sale that week. And especially when you find all your customers DID purchase frogs from someone else AFTER they`ve picked your brain enough and went w/ a cheaper competitor.

[jubjub47]

Aaron, the problem with that is that all businesses suffer the same thing. Everyone wants to pay less for items they buy. While I understand that spending all of that time does suck when you don't make the sale, its not time wasted. Many times your time and effort will payoff in the long term. Sure you didn't get this sale, but what about their next purchase when they remember how helpful you were before? Businesses don't thrive off of a customer coming in one time. Its the repeat customers that keep businesses thriving and while the sale may not happen the first time you talk....treat them well and its almost guaranteed they will check with you again for future purchases.

[earthfrog]

Another couple of things about buying online---

Be sure that they volunteer info such as the bloodline and give husbandry advice on that species, rather than merely quote you a price. That's how you can tell if you are getting them from a somewhat reputable breeder.

Also, don't be tempted to sell your frogs/juvies for much less than they're worth---especially from someone who just joined the forum 5 minutes ago! This undercuts everyone since these 'bargain hunters' may turn around and resell them for more once they're grown, and IMO that's not someone from whom I want to acquire frogs---it begs the question "How adequately were these frogs cared for?"

Finally, don't be too shy---ask why they're selling. A reputable frogger will usually volunteer most, if not all, of the above, without you asking.

If none of the above is volunteered, the seller/buyer just joined DB and is posting questions about price rather than frog info---beware...

[eLisborg]

Originally Posted by earthfrog

Another couple of things about buying online---
Be sure that they volunteer info such as the bloodline and give husbandry advice on that species, rather than merely quote you a price. That's how you can tell if you are getting them from a somewhat reputable breeder.

I'm going to have to disagree with this, I have bought frogs from many "reputable breeders" who just quote prices, and there's nothing wrong with that. Especially for large breeders who sell a lot of frogs, I would imagine that telling every single customer the specific care information would become quite tediuos after a few sales.

[TheOregonKid]

Originally Posted by jubjub47

I think that reputation plays a lot into it. My point was directed towards buying from individuals who are not necessarily a steadily appearing name in the classifieds who may just have a few pairs of frogs that produce occasional offspring. These sellers are not going to have a known reputation like a more frequent seller. More than likely this seller has sold nothing but quality animals and been a reputable seller in their past transactions, but since they only have a few frogs for sale every 6 months or so they are kind of an unknown. There is a fairly large number of posts that get made in the classifieds from sellers just like this. If your that seller or maybe put yourself in that sellers place....would it bother you to see another frogger who you've discussed a sale with post a thread asking if anyone has dealt with you in the past to please pm them?

I agree wholeheartedly. As a business man I've learned that reputation and proven quality are virtually always worth paying a little bit extra for. By choosing to support honest and ethical breeders we are doing a favor for ourselves, the frogs, and the hobby as a whole.

[earthfrog]

Originally Posted by eLisborg

I'm going to have to disagree with this, I have bought frogs from many "reputable breeders" who just quote prices, and there's nothing wrong with that. Especially for large breeders who sell a lot of frogs, I would imagine that telling every single customer the specific care information would become quite tediuos after a few sales.

I think what I had in mind when I wrote this was private individuals, like myself. Maybe 'willing to share' is a better way to say it than 'volunteer' when getting husbandry advice from a vendor/individual.

[nurse3766]

i wish there was some sort of rating as far as sellers go. kinda like ebay.
seems like theres little to no accountability here almost like cops or docs covering for each other.

i can tell u the other day i saw a vendor selling "WC blue jeans"

so i sent an email "caught from where?"

(since these are illegal to export from costa rica)

i got no response

that in itself was all the response i needed.

ask the hard questions. as soon as the person stops responding you have yr answer. move on.