The ultimate clay-based substrate thread

[Dancing frogs]

Originally Posted by gary1218

I'm interested in the answer to this as well before I buy one or the other.

From previous discussions it sounds like the calcium level in the substrate is what people are concerned about. Does one or the other contain more calcium? Are there other advantages to using one over the other?

THANKS!!!

I belive you use the redart as an unfired clay, it will basicly turn to glop in the bottom of the tank.
Laterite is fired, and will not turn to glop, and will provide drainage for ever.

[gary1218]

Originally Posted by Dancing frogs

I belive you use the redart as an unfired clay, it will basicly turn to glop in the bottom of the tank.
Laterite is fired, and will not turn to glop, and will provide drainage for ever.

If I remember Brent's post correctly he mixes up the redart clay powder with water as if you were going to use it to throw a clay pot. Then he lays it out as a 1/4" slab to completely dry out. Then he smashes it into smaller pieces to mix into his substrate. I don't think he has a problem with it then turning into glop in the bottom of the tank.

Hopefully Brent will pick up on this post and give us his input.

[Dancing frogs]

That would work so long as you don't spray the tank heavily on a regular basis...
But unfired clay, exposed to moisture, will turn to muck.
Trust me, I grew up with clay.

[Corpus Callosum]

I was told fluorite is the one that's fired and even though laterite is sold in a granular form for aquarists it isn't fired and will not hold it's form once wet. Not to doubt the above info, just trying to get to the bottom of what I was told and where the misinformation lies.

[Ed]

If it can't turn to some level of "muck" (although this does depend on drainage...) then it is hard for the substrate to present in/on the invertebrates to be ingested by the frogs... When dealing with clay in some of the tests I have made, you can actually sculpt areas (peaks) in the substrate that are dry to the touch on the top... The lower levels will turn to some levels of muck...
When dealing with these items in the terraria you hydrate the substrate and sculpt it into place and then let it dry for about 24-36 hours so it can "set" into place. Once it has set it is pretty stable but if you let it really dry out and then wet it, you have to let it set again. In an enclosure at work, I have a clay/peat admixture covered with a live moss, holding a rock waterfall together over which the unrestricted outflow of a magnum 350 runs...

People also need to understand that you need a variety of soil invertebrates so the frogs can try to meet thier nutritional needs by modifying thier diet (as wild frogs do....) Just having isopods and springtails is probably going to be an insufficient variety....

Ed

[Exoticdarts]

To answer the ?? on Laterite & Redart -

Laterite & Redart are both made from a red soil found in tropical and subtropical regions that has been leached of soluble minerals, aluminum hydroxides and silica. They are both rich in iron, which is an important nutrient for plants, and also gives it that rain forest floor red look.

Most all Laterite & Redart clay is currently mined from different parts of the US. You can find Redart in most pottery supply houses. Laterite can be a bit harder to find and comes from just a few specific places throughout the US.

Laterite will have a brighter and richer red look over the Redart clay due to the slightly higher iron content.

Both versions of the clay come in raw pulverized powders that have not been fired. When fired, they lose their benefits needed for making a clay soil. It would be the same as using crushed clay pots or Hydroton.

When we prepare the crushed clay, we use a mixture of 30lbs of Aragonite sand to 50lbs of Laterite.

Why do we use Aragonite sand?

1. It gives the clay structure and strength.

2. The calcium slowly leaches into the soil with watering and age. This provides a direct source of high calcium for the soil invertebrates which the froglets feed on, making them healthier and their survival rate higher.

We then mix the clay with water to a consistency of thick mud and place it on a hemp canvas for two weeks or until dry. It is then folded and crushed to a size of 20mm and smaller.

You can mix the clay with any type of sand, peat, coco, or sphagnum with good results. Just make sure the substrate is not over watered. We usually only water 20 seconds every other day, just enough to wet the plants.

Sprinkling the clay powder over the previous soil also works well. When watered, it too will work its way into the soil.

I believe most people will find mixing, drying, crushing and sprinkling it over their previous soil a lot easer to do.

Here is a photo at one month so you can see what the soil looks like without the crushed clay. The mix we use for this setup is Redart clay, Cocogrow, collected forest soil, and peat/sphagnum moss. It is mixed and then placed on top of a 2" layer of Higromite with black screen in between the two.



Hope this can help in any way.

Kevin

[froggerboy]

doesn't the argonite affect the PH of the soil, making it too alkaline?

[Exoticdarts]

In the amount we use its not enough to effect the PH on any large or small scale. You would have to use quite a bit of Aragonite to raise the PH value of the soil. Tropical soils range from 4.3-7.0 depending on where it is tested.

A good target range in soil is 6.2-6.5 and this will give that desired lush green growth we all look for.

[kyle1745]

So Aragonite acts as a supply for calcium? Where is a good place to buy it?

One of the more common places is reef tank suppliers. HERE is some. However, a MUCH cheaper alternative (if you're in the right area of the states) is the SouthDown or Yardright brand playsands. Check your local Home Depot for it. It's a playsand for sandboxes, but it's actually collected in tropical waters, so it's actually an aragonite sand. Check this out: http://www.crabstreetjournal.com/produc ... ysand.html