2nd day shipping for frogs?

Dancing frogs · #1 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 06:24 AM

Before commenting,go here, and check out the performance of this packaging...
http://www.mnthermalscience.com/prod_platelet.htm

What I have been wondering is...if you can absolutely be assured of safe temps for the duration of the shipment, would 2nd day shipments be "safe" and would doing so be accepted by the PDF community in general?
I wonder about that, because the package linked to has a tare weight of 9lbs, and my packaging is around the same size, but is more like 4-5 lbs, but still costs me>$55 for an overnight shipment. I can only speculate what shipping the 9lb package would be, since Fedex's rate calculator is way off in my experience, and with the rate of shipping only getting higher, you can see where I am going.
I also don't know what this packaging would cost, but if I were to go with it, it would be a return, and possibly with a deposit sort of deal, so even if it were to cost >$100, it would be worth it, for the saftey of the animals, and so I can sleep at night :wink:
I'm not planning on starting to do 2nd day shipments, but I am considering this packing route, but at the same time, I am looking to the future, where overnight shipping can cost more than the frogs ordered.

Some thoughts...
Would there be enough oxygen? I would think probably.
Just plain too much time in the dark, bounced around, no food?
How much time do frogs being imported from SA or Europe spend in a box?
What do you all think?

gary1218 · #2 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 11:08 AM

That's pretty impressive. I guess I'd be curious to see how much you would really save on shipping being a 9lb package. I'd be even more curious to know what that black inner box is made of so that we could just make it ourselves

markpulawski · #3 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 11:45 AM

Frogs in the dark kind of go into a "resting state", a friend of mine brought back frogs from Europe once and had accumulated them over 7 or 8 days time, he left them all in a dark box and did nothing to them, all were 100% fine when put into their tanks over a week later. If you can assure temps are good you will have no problems
By the way I always use Express Mail at the post office, my last 2 shipments were under $25 and both arrived the next day in 100% good shape.
Mark

joshsfrogs · #4 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 12:16 PM

I'm curious how delicate the vacuum seal is. I wonder how many times you could ship the box before it was in such bad shape that the vacuum didn't work anymore.

Quote:

By the way I always use Express Mail at the post office, my last 2 shipments were under $25 and both arrived the next day in 100% good shape.

I offered my customers last year the choice between UPS and USPS for shipping frogs. The majority chose UPS even though it is substantially higher in price.

amphibianfreak · #5 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 03:24 PM

Just wanted to share....

About 2 years ago (this coming august) I had a few somewhat delicate frogs sent to me from what I though was a reputable breeder. They were to be sent USPS overnight. Overnight turned into 2 day, 2 day turned into the package being lost....Finally after a lot of calling USPS the package was "found" and finally got to me 3 days after being sent. Now, the frogs were alive (panguana lamasi) but it was not do to the packaging. The packaging was horrible. Single cardboard box, no styro reinforcement, frogs were place in a 32oz ff container with nothing to prevent them from being jostled. Upon receipt, the paper towel that was at one point damp was completly dry. So, i guess even under the worst packaging conditions and moderate temps, 2 day should not be a problem... I still have the frogs to this day with no ill effects...

Dancing frogs · #6 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gary1218

That's pretty impressive. I guess I'd be curious to see how much you would really save on shipping being a 9lb package. I'd be even more curious to know what that black inner box is made of so that we could just make it ourselves

Well, I am considering doing that, the black box, I'm pretty sure is just a double walled plastic container with phase change material inside it.
But that is only part of the performance equation.
The other part is the vacum panels...I have no idea how to make them, and they are a key element...if I remember correctly, vacum has an insulating value of R-30 per inch, whereas the next best thing that is commonly available only offers about R-5 per inch.
As for the longevity of the vacum panels...that would be something to consider, if you look on the website they do mention replacement panels.
I requested a quote, and I'll see what happens.

As for express mail, I have used it, it works pretty well, as long as you pay attention to whether or not they will guarantee overnight.
I can't ship overnight via usps from here, instead I have to drive them about 90 miles (one way) to the terminal, and with gas supposed to gradually creep back up to >$3 a gallon, it is just as cheap to have fedex pick them up here, and they actually spend less time in the box.
What is nice about usps express is they don't charge dimensional weight, so if you go the double box route, it won't cost an arm and a leg.

Tim F · #7 (**permalink**) 03-09-2007, 06:07 PM

Given a choice, I'll always choose overnight - regardless of the cost of the frogs. This way, if I don't receive my package by 10:30 am the next morning, I'll know to start tracing it right away, which could possibly add a day. However if something goes wrong with a 2 day...

If I had no choice, I don't think that 2 day only shipping would prevent me from buying. I'd just make sure that I understood the live guarantee policy and hope for a timely shipment.

markc019 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-10-2007, 12:17 PM

I will not take a risk of shipping anything other than overnight... packages get lost and things happen! I just don't want to gamble with the lives of the frogs.. But to all of you with good success with 2+ day shipping I hope it continues.. Good packing is always key ..

~Mark

kyle1745 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-10-2007, 11:09 PM

Even in perfect conditions I would not try it or recommend it. Packages are lost way too often to even play with 2nd day shipping for animals. Also you never know exactly where they will sit for that day...a hot truck, a cold warehouse.... etc etc. It just increases the possibility of problems.

sbreland · #10 (**permalink**) 03-11-2007, 03:34 PM

Yeah, but the point is, with these types of containers it wouldn't really matter where they sat for that day, which is why teh idea came up. The phase change materials are tested at well beyond our specs (usually in negative temps or in temps above 90) and hold the temp around the target area for extended periods of time. That's the beauty and I thin why Brian is interested in this. It takes the danger of temperature out of the equation, but there are still things to consider like will there be enough O2 in the container for that period, how will the frogs react to being contained for that long , etc. The worries of temp fluctuations is what the phase change material eliminates. Now, if you end up going over two days then it becomes a little different story so those concerns are valid, but where the box sits shouldn't be. Honestly, even with great technology like this i doubt any of us are going to think it's a good idea to ship frogs in negative temperatures so if these will hold up to that I am pretty sure it can hold up to the limits that we would use them for.